To be honest, the thing that crosses my mind the most is trying to explain the sex bit. I have only written two stories that feature sex with people who are 17 and they are locked. Everything else is 18+. But it's still Harry Potter. And if my clients found out or my professional college or my work, I'm not sure they'd care who was 18. And I do worry about being a part of a community with chan and underage-y stuff. I mean, as part of the community, I get it's place but when I envision explaining why it doesn't count as Bad Porn to people outside of the community, I see it not going well. And that worries me.
Although I will say, I only write HP and since JKR has pretty much given her blessing, I feel less afraid of the copyright issue. ;)
Yeah, I think the sex stuff would be the part that needs explaining to people outside fandom. Googling "Harry Potter porn" instead of "Harry Potter slash" was a pretty clear indicator for me that there are people who will just never understand, because they can't see past their own impressions of what it might be to understand what it is.
The chan/underage part is such a tricky thing, too. I mean, I get why it exists and I've had this discussion with other people, but I'm still not sure why that's the thing we're pin our freedom of speech on. I've thought a lot about it relative to the laws I've dug up for Canada and I think there's a case to be made for 16/17 year-olds in relationships with other 16/17 year-olds, but I wouldn't want to take anything else -- younger or student/teacher or dub/non-con -- to court.
The Harry Potter books are set in Britain where the age of consent in 16, so I've always figured that as long as they are over 16 for full penetrative intercourse then that's ok. Of course I'm also covered by being British. I think.
I mean, as part of the community, I get it's place but when I envision explaining why it doesn't count as Bad Porn to people outside of the community, I see it not going well. And that worries me.
Most of my explanations is for if someone in my family happen to find a random slash PWP and I'm going "Um..." XD For my law enforcement I would explain that I'm doing the same as other authors and honing my skill by writing my Harry/Sirius PWP. Why it is sexual? Well I am trying to show that regardless of age people can still find love. I know that was weak, but I'll probably tweak it as I go along. XD
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Exactly! For a long time, culture was built on sharing stories without copyright attached. It's how lots of classics were created, including a whole lot of Disney movies. That we've commodified everything to an extent that culture has been packaged and sold via copyright doesn't really change human nature at all.
I think what irritates me most about the anti-fandom authors is that they seem to dismiss the creativity of their fans. I know a few authors who'll admit they started their careers in fandom, and while copyright restrictions mean they can't acknowledge the things they've written -- or the things people in their fandoms write -- I'm sure the anti- authors don't represent all of publishing. And I think the attitude is going to change. I mean, we're living in a remix world, right?
*squish* Your view is awesome. Thanks so much for sharing. ♥
Yeah, but how many of those creators are doing the dismissing precisely because of the creativity of their fans? I.E., a perceived "ACK, they're better than me!" (I can name a couple of ficcers who bypass JKR, IMO - not in world-building or creating characters, etc., but in style and ability to write.)
Most fans I've known would happily give due credit to the creator(s) of the stuff they fanficced, if they were ever published with their own original stuff, as a thank-you, and would not outright steal from them, even if they used "inspiration." But all it takes is one shit like Cassandra Claire to put everybody off their plagiarism, you know. ;-)
I suspect that's part of it, at least for some of them. Laurell K Hamilton, definitely. I suspect there's some degree of it with Anne Rice, too. They see fandom as inherent criticism and fanworks as competition, I think, instead of seeing it as the product of fannish love.
Of course, not every fanwork is a labour of fannish love. I mean, my CotBP stuff is, for sure, but anything AWE-related? No way. Same with any HP stuff after HBP.
You're probably right about crediting for inspiration, but last time I checked, getting fiction published meant getting a formal copyright on your work, which means promising you aren't violating someone else's copyright. As it was explained to me, that means taking down the fic and not officially acknowledging fannish roots, although that might have changed in the past few years.
I've personally never really considered it. To me, I'm doing nothing wrong. The characters are over the age of 18 in my works and they aren't doing anything illegal. If erotica is published work, why can it not be fanfiction? If one has clear warning for 18+ material with warnings, I can't really do anything else to stop minors from reading it. The same would go for erotica novels, one cannot really stop a minor from buying them, but would they blame the authors for it
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Yes! Yes to all of this! Especially the staying away from anti-fandom authors part, because knowing people dislike fandom is enough to make me steer clear, too.
You're spot-on about erotica, too, and I hadn't considered that part. Certainly not in the depth it deserves. I mean, there really is no creative difference in content, except that fandom makes it public and collective in ways professional/published/for-profit works don't.
I don't really understand how authors can be against it. I get that it's their world, their children they've created of sorts, but shouldn't they love the fact that their fans love their characters so much, that they'd want to write them? Draw them? If I was an author, I'd feel privileged
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a lot of my fests and most certainly my journal contains explicit adult content... but what happens when I have a fest like the fanart fest currently that contains adult content but is not all adult content.
Should minors be allowed to participate? There will be adult content but it will all be behind a cut/warning...
Is that enough?
I just don't have the answer to these questions...
I've always felt that once a creative work is in the public domain then it belongs to its readers/watchers. By publishing, an author releases this characters, that world etc into the wild. That said, we also have JKR's blessing. It's an interactive as opposed to a passive consumption of the creative work.
Shakespeare based most of his plays on previously published stories, took characters from Holinshed or whoever, and wrote his own fanfics of them. Wide Sargasso Sea is basically a fanfic of Jane Eyre. Angela Carter's The Bloody Chamber is fairy tale fanfic - some of which is from traditional sources, but some were written by the Grimms or Hans Christian Anderson or others. It's a legitimate form of writing.
It worries me a little that we write sex between children's book characters but then the books were deliberately released with separate cover illustrations for adults so there has been official acknowledgement that they are available for and aimed at adults, too. I don't worry about law enforcement, but do wonder whether it
( ... )
I wish I could remember specifics, but there's some communications ideology that says we all construct our own realities and that we read into the world what we want to make of it. I remember thinking it was a bit ridiculous as expressed where I found it, but that it was basically made for RPS/RPF.
For public figures -- celebrities, politicians, etc -- I always just sort of went with the libel rule. They're fair game as long as we aren't accusing them of something criminal in a way that is not clearly satire/fiction. The rule as I learned it was that it's fine to say Madonna has the face of a whore but not to say she is one in anything presenting itself as factual. I think fandom's pretty clear that fic is fiction, so we're good.
And yeah, I like "death of the author", too. Once a thing is published, it's out there for the public to make of it whatever they want. Content creators can try to direct public opinion in how they make their work, but they can't control what individual media consumers do with their work.
As far as sexually controversial content is concerned, anyone who writes it is basically fucked if they get targeted by law enforcement.
That freaks me the fuck out!
Becuase what exactly is legal and illegal in the realm of fiction? Is it illegal to write about incest or beastiality? I don't think I've written charachters underage... at least not under 16 *ponders*
Anyway, thanks for your comment, it's really enlightening. I was glad to see that you replied to this.
I worry a lot about how my writings would be perceived since I am a parent.
Yes to all of this. I really believe that fandom and the people in it are harmless, but I just don't know that I could convince anyone outside of our community of that.
That's horrible about losing out on the job because of readng preferences. It's the danger of online I guess. Not like prospective employers normally have a chance at your bookshelves in rl, etc... :/
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Although I will say, I only write HP and since JKR has pretty much given her blessing, I feel less afraid of the copyright issue. ;)
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The chan/underage part is such a tricky thing, too. I mean, I get why it exists and I've had this discussion with other people, but I'm still not sure why that's the thing we're pin our freedom of speech on. I've thought a lot about it relative to the laws I've dug up for Canada and I think there's a case to be made for 16/17 year-olds in relationships with other 16/17 year-olds, but I wouldn't want to take anything else -- younger or student/teacher or dub/non-con -- to court.
We did luck out with JKR, didn't we? :)
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Exactly this!
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I think what irritates me most about the anti-fandom authors is that they seem to dismiss the creativity of their fans. I know a few authors who'll admit they started their careers in fandom, and while copyright restrictions mean they can't acknowledge the things they've written -- or the things people in their fandoms write -- I'm sure the anti- authors don't represent all of publishing. And I think the attitude is going to change. I mean, we're living in a remix world, right?
*squish* Your view is awesome. Thanks so much for sharing. ♥
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Most fans I've known would happily give due credit to the creator(s) of the stuff they fanficced, if they were ever published with their own original stuff, as a thank-you, and would not outright steal from them, even if they used "inspiration." But all it takes is one shit like Cassandra Claire to put everybody off their plagiarism, you know. ;-)
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Of course, not every fanwork is a labour of fannish love. I mean, my CotBP stuff is, for sure, but anything AWE-related? No way. Same with any HP stuff after HBP.
You're probably right about crediting for inspiration, but last time I checked, getting fiction published meant getting a formal copyright on your work, which means promising you aren't violating someone else's copyright. As it was explained to me, that means taking down the fic and not officially acknowledging fannish roots, although that might have changed in the past few years.
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You're spot-on about erotica, too, and I hadn't considered that part. Certainly not in the depth it deserves. I mean, there really is no creative difference in content, except that fandom makes it public and collective in ways professional/published/for-profit works don't.
♥
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a lot of my fests and most certainly my journal contains explicit adult content... but what happens when I have a fest like the fanart fest currently that contains adult content but is not all adult content.
Should minors be allowed to participate? There will be adult content but it will all be behind a cut/warning...
Is that enough?
I just don't have the answer to these questions...
Reply
Shakespeare based most of his plays on previously published stories, took characters from Holinshed or whoever, and wrote his own fanfics of them. Wide Sargasso Sea is basically a fanfic of Jane Eyre. Angela Carter's The Bloody Chamber is fairy tale fanfic - some of which is from traditional sources, but some were written by the Grimms or Hans Christian Anderson or others. It's a legitimate form of writing.
It worries me a little that we write sex between children's book characters but then the books were deliberately released with separate cover illustrations for adults so there has been official acknowledgement that they are available for and aimed at adults, too. I don't worry about law enforcement, but do wonder whether it ( ... )
Reply
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For public figures -- celebrities, politicians, etc -- I always just sort of went with the libel rule. They're fair game as long as we aren't accusing them of something criminal in a way that is not clearly satire/fiction. The rule as I learned it was that it's fine to say Madonna has the face of a whore but not to say she is one in anything presenting itself as factual. I think fandom's pretty clear that fic is fiction, so we're good.
And yeah, I like "death of the author", too. Once a thing is published, it's out there for the public to make of it whatever they want. Content creators can try to direct public opinion in how they make their work, but they can't control what individual media consumers do with their work.
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(The comment has been removed)
As far as sexually controversial content is concerned, anyone who writes it is basically fucked if they get targeted by law enforcement.
That freaks me the fuck out!
Becuase what exactly is legal and illegal in the realm of fiction? Is it illegal to write about incest or beastiality?
I don't think I've written charachters underage... at least not under 16 *ponders*
Anyway, thanks for your comment, it's really enlightening. I was glad to see that you replied to this.
I worry a lot about how my writings would be perceived since I am a parent.
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(The comment has been removed)
That's horrible about losing out on the job because of readng preferences. It's the danger of online I guess. Not like prospective employers normally have a chance at your bookshelves in rl, etc... :/
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