tall, dark and miserable

Jan 16, 2004 11:51

cathexys and I had a great conversation the other day wherein she came up with some neat ideas connecting her liking for fics that include body-switching, time travel, gender-switching, and AU's, among others. I'll let her post it, as it is hers, but I thought it was quite cool. isiscolo, you might be interested when she does, as you share some of these ( Read more... )

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Comments 26

Tall, dark and miserable... with a side order of hunchback! laurelwood January 16 2004, 12:27:18 UTC
Your list gave me an "Aha!" moment as two formerly-crushed-on characters swam up from the dregs of my subconscious and demanded to be sorted into the "tall, dark and haunted" subcategory: Archibald Craven from "The Secret Garden" and Dean Priest from L.M. Montgomery's "Emily" series. Dunno what it says about me that they're both, um, posture-challenged. I love your categories, though- it's very interesting to try to thrash out why one appeals more than another.

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Re: Tall, dark and miserable... with a side order of hunchback! darkkitten1 January 16 2004, 13:13:35 UTC
Dunno what it says about me that they're both, um, posture-challenged.

Hmm, I don't know either. I've never read the Emily series. I did read the Secret Garden, but I think I was like eight, and I don't remember a thing about it now. But the theme sounds just a bit Mr. Rochester-ish. Tall, dark and tragic? Intriguing...

it's very interesting to try to thrash out why one appeals more than another.

Tis one of my favorite activities. I love trying to tease out possible reasons for taking pleasure in reading- erotic or otherwise- and exploring people's differing tastes.

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Re: Tall, dark and miserable... with a side order of hunchback! donnaimmaculata January 16 2004, 14:01:34 UTC
I definitely go along with the tall, dark, miserable type, but I think I prefer the "miserable" bit to be more veiled. I don't like them going on and on about it, y'know? That's why Mr. Rochester doesn't appeal to me - he is to eloquent on the subject of his suffering. That's why I like Severus and Sirius and Remus: thanks to Harry's PoV, we get only small glimpses of the tragic behind these characters, but we never (or hardly ever) have them tell about it first-hand. Even Sirius' depressions in OotP were merely hinted at from Harry's point of view, either as his own observations or as comments coming from other characters ( ... )

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Re: Tall, dark and miserable... with a side order of hunchback! darkkitten1 January 17 2004, 00:25:08 UTC
I definitely go along with the tall, dark, miserable type, but I think I prefer the "miserable" bit to be more veiled. I don't like them going on and on about it, y'know?

I do know. :)

marinarusalka and I were discussing a similiar issue at one point, and she said some really insightful things about Sirius and Snape's way of being miserable as compared to the way Remus is miserable ( ... )

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Thinking Woman's Crumpet executrix January 16 2004, 15:22:36 UTC
I don't think that any typology can be complete that fails to include Avon under "obsessed" and "haunted."

The Type 2 is very often the second lead in the series rather than the nominal Hero, which means that he generally has less burden of being conventionally handsome (and thus is often more interesting-looking), or conventionally heroic (and therefore can behave in ambiguous and interesting ways). It is also rare for a popular-entertainment protagonist to be an intellectual--this is usually considered somewhere between Sinister and Comic Relief, but of course we're going to go for the smart guys.

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Re: Thinking Woman's Crumpet darkkitten1 January 16 2004, 23:14:59 UTC
I don't think that any typology can be complete that fails to include Avon under "obsessed" and "haunted."

*grins* Ah, yummy comment! I haven't discussed Avon in far too long.

Hmm. I think I do agree on the issue of "obsessed", though I'd love to see your argument on what exactly Avon's obsessed with. Blake would be my vote. Whether you slash the two of them or not (and I do), canonically Blake has got all tangled up in Avon's very existence, and Avon cannot get rid of him whether Blake is physically present or not.

Re haunted: convince me! What is Avon haunted by? There's a distinction between the terms haunted and obsessed for me, and you've challenged me to try to determine exactly what. Perhaps that an obsessed character is running toward something, while a haunted character is running away from it?

The Type 2 is very often the second lead in the series rather than the nominal Hero, which means that he generally has less burden of being conventionally handsome (and thus is often more interesting-looking), or conventionally ( ... )

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Avon: A Terrible Relationship executrix January 17 2004, 09:18:38 UTC
In response to

Oh, absolutely. He'd tell you that a day without Avon is like a day WITH sunshine.

I personally would say that one is haunted by the past and obsessed by the present or even more crucially by an imagined/dreaded future.

Hence until Rumours of Death Avon is haunted by Anna in one way (and in a different way, afterwards), and his perceptibly lighter affect in S1/2 than 3/4 is due in part to replacing his obsession with Anna with a fairly functional obsession with Blake. After StarOne he shifts to being haunted by Blake, and consequently his obsession with Anna is able to re-emerge.

And I *do* slash B/A but I don't think it's a particularly healthy relationship because even on their best day they're about a quart low on respecting or liking one another.

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Apology & Invitation millefiori January 16 2004, 18:45:41 UTC
I was fascinated by this preference of yours and linked the post over at snapesupport before I realized it was friends-locked. (I'm sorry!) Anyway, can I interest you in coming to visit my snapesupport post and talking more about Snape there??

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Re: Apology & Invitation darkkitten1 January 16 2004, 21:30:29 UTC
Millefiori, no apology needed! I'm pleased you were interested enough in the post to want to link it. And I have so done that myself, linked to flocked posts and then been horribly embarrassed that I'd missed they were locked! The Refried Paper style makes it really easy to overlook, as do some others.

But no need for embarrassment here. I've unlocked the post, and included the link on snapesupport. It was locked only because I lock h/c posts. But snapesupport is a congenial place that does a great job of talking about all kinds of issues, so I think it will be fine.

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Re: Apology & Invitation millefiori January 17 2004, 07:37:57 UTC
Oh good -- I'm glad you're not upset! I always figure people have things f'locked for a reason, and therefore don't want attention drawn to the post.

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lolaraincoat January 16 2004, 19:05:07 UTC
This has led me to ponder why in RL I pick partners who are about the exact opposite of the Darkly Brooding Guys here -- on whom I too get literary crushes. The Dorothy Dunnett heroes, and whosis from the Lloyd Alexander books, and Snape ...

Well, none of them have been short. But otherwise. Why is that? And do the rest of you do that too?

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darkkitten1 January 17 2004, 00:49:17 UTC
Absolutely! See my response to donnaimmaculata, above.

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luthien January 16 2004, 19:05:10 UTC
Interesting what patterns surface when we really take a good look at our reading preferences.

Snape - may or may not be tall, but I think Harry or Sirius or someone with an axe to grind would have made note of how short Snape was if he really was short, so he must be at least average height or above.

Horatio - Hmmn, well, while the character in the book is unquestionably tall, dark and miserable, I am afraid that the same does not go for Horatio as played by Ioan Scabblehand. Having met him, I can tell you that tall he is not. He's shorter than I am, though, admittedly, I'm one of the taller women anyone is ever likely to meet. I'm an inch or two below six feet; Ioan is less than that. Very easy on the eyes, though.

Avon - makes up in miserableness what he lacks in height. (Ooh, Avon. I think it might be time to watch B7 again.)

Faramir - well, if they had to get an actor without dark hair to play him, at least they got David Wenham. Faramir was probably the beginning of my own predilection for tall, dark and troubled, a list ( ... )

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darkkitten1 January 17 2004, 01:02:32 UTC
I agree, IMO he isn't short, or as you say that fact would have been thrown in his face at some point. He's just not quite as tall as Sirius. *snarls at JKR for OotP, as prior to OotP I envisioned them the same height* Millefiori's post to snapesupport linking back here also has a discussion that addresses the issue of Snape's height.

Ioan's not tall? *blinks* Wow. He looks tall onscreen to me. I mean, not towering, but tall enough. OTOH, I'm 5'2", so my definition of tall is fairly generous. *g* Neat that you met him!

After seeing ROTK, D and I just got the extended versions of both FOTR and TTT, and we're about to reread the books. So I've been thinking Faramir thoughts of late. Mmm, nice. :)

*grins at Ares* Don't know him (what fandom?), but my, he looks rather familiar, does he not? Hee!

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luthien January 17 2004, 01:19:51 UTC
It was great to see Ioan in the flesh, but I was pretty astounded at how, er, small he was, yes. *g*

Faramir was always one of my favourite characters in the Lord of the Rings. I was so disappointed when they mucked him up in TTT movie - though I forgave them somewhat when I saw the extended edition, which went quite a way to explaining the changes.

Ares, as played by the late Kevin Smith, was the main recurring villain on 'Xena: Warrior Princess'. Kev was a major reason why straight women watched the show, and I think he'll always figure near the top of my list of fannish crushes.

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darkkitten1 January 17 2004, 13:21:07 UTC
The late Kevin Smith? Aaagh, upsetting! OK, Xena, that rings a bell now.

Will have more comments on Faramir shortly, as we're watching extended TTT today. *wants Faramir icon*

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