Comments | dave_orphal: St. Calixtus Said...

dave_orphal

St. Calixtus Said...

Oct 16, 2009 07:07

There is no sin beyond forgiveness. This got him into a lot of hot water with the church he was leading in the 3rd Century. At the time, the church was interested in solidifying it identity. An easy way to do that is to define the so-called other. We are us, because we are not them and they are not one of us. This mentality lead to a rash of ( Read more... )

Comments 21

Can I get an a-MEN! madbaker October 16 2009, 14:33:00 UTC

There can be no absolving without repentance. Saying that it is time to "move on" is simply ducking responsibility for one's actions.

Re: Can I get an a-MEN! ktmcg October 16 2009, 17:10:14 UTC

A-MEN!!!

Re: Can I get an a-MEN! sirjade October 17 2009, 01:43:28 UTC

a-MEN!

Nicely said.

gormflaith October 16 2009, 16:40:05 UTC

Strangely enough, I've been reading "Christianity & Paganism in the 3rd through 8th Centuries" this week.
My synthesis of what I have read so far is that; "We are a full service Medieval Club."

ermine_rat October 16 2009, 17:00:33 UTC

I do admire the sentiment, but while true redemption and true forgiveness are possible, I think it is less common than it should be. Belief and trust in the change are essential, and we all try not to be dopey about our trust, especially if we have seen false repentance before.

Unfortunately, we won't really achieve "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Kingdom".

ktmcg October 16 2009, 17:13:50 UTC

That's OK - TRUST but VERIFY! I accept any written or spoken ownership of divisive actions, and also apology if warrented; but in the long run, the future ACTIONS and behaviour of those owning AND apologizing will be the verification which will heal us.

dave_orphal October 16 2009, 17:16:31 UTC

I agree that among some of us, trust is broken. In order for real forgiveness to happen, people need to agree to make positive changes. Once those agreements are in place - we may have to see the behaviors really change, and stay changed for some time before we can feel real forgiveness in our hearts. In between the time when the commitment of change is made and the real emotion of forgiveness to grow in our hearts, we do need to allow the other the room to make change.

Now here is a sticky wicket... We all know that when people are trying to make difficult changes in behavior, we back-slide. We're so tired that one time, or busy, or stressed that we slip into those old well-established patterns of behavior.

For those of us trying to offer forgiveness - is this the time for us to say, "Gotcha! See, I knew the commitment was insincere," or is this the time for us to say, "I think you may have back-slid on our agreement and I need to you get back on the wagon for me."?

dave_orphal October 16 2009, 17:18:51 UTC

Using myself as an example, I've recommitted to not believing in or spreading rumors. A year or two done the road, I've gotten lazy and back-slide on this commitment. Does this mean my current sentiments are insincere?

Thread 15

On gossip klwilliams October 16 2009, 18:15:43 UTC

Some things that I've learned about gossip:

1. Most people will believe whatever they hear without question. The worse the story, the more likely they are to believe it.

2. When I hear something, I store it in my mind as "Person A said this thing", not as "this thing is true".

3. I always verify what I hear.

4. A secret is something you tell one person at a time. If you say or write something where more than one person hears or sees it, it is no longer a secret. At least one person will pass it on.

5. If I am told a secret first hand, it is a secret. I won't pass it on. If I am told a secret second hand, it is no longer a secret.

You're a good man, and a good Knight. sirjade October 17 2009, 01:56:40 UTC

I appreciate you posting this. I've been some what removed from things for a while, as I've been getting ready for my upcoming wedding, and also did an art car project for Burning Man this year, so my participation has only been at fighter practice (gotta keep sharp!) and Crown events.

The crap I had been hearing was really making me sad, and I've been hoping that somehow there would be a turning of the corner, so there would still *BE* a Kingdom *worth* coming back to more actively next Spring.

When I heard about the things you mention above, I was absolutely appalled.

Your post gives me great hope that things are starting to work themselves out. Thanks for that!

Also, by the way - nice work at Crown. Maybe you should switch to the buckler permanently. >:)