Bravo. I do hope the foaming and ranting calms down and Labour hammers themselves into something credible soon; but they need a reboot and what will they be then, Old New Labour? (It worked for monster munch) As you say, they need a tagline, a catchphrase or something so people will identify with it and vote for it, sweeping away everyone who's associated with Blair's toxic legacy and disassociating themselves publicly from him whenever he tries to make "helpful" comments would be useful as well, but that isn't going to happen either.
So credible opposition? I'm interested in seeing what will happen in their leadership elections but I don't hold out much hope for them in the short term, it'll take another election defeat (and a generation of people who forget about weren't alive for the Blair years to start voting) before they'll get anywhere...
The tragedy of Labour is that Blair was right. Well, right for them, anyway. The Third Way was Scandionavian Social democracy in action, and then he completely poisoned the idea by killing a hundred thousand iraqis and driving the economy into a tree.
The great fight of the c20 was market vs command economies, and command economics lost. Unfortunately Labour have retreated back to it in a reflex anti-Blair action.
Politicians only get remembered for one thing generally; Blair is Iraq, Nixon Watergate, Reagan... Star Wars; anything beyond a single concept and history gets all confused.
At the start Blair was the hero, now he'll never be anything to most people other than a traitor.
Economics I barely know enough about to debate about with you :) But personality and history; that's more obvious.
As a labour voter but a mix of left wing and right wing, I tend to agree. The main reason I don't vote conservative is because I don't approve of their approach to the unemployed (being on a job search myself), but I do think that you have some valid points, I'm utterly ashamed of my fellow labour voters and their reaction to this election, and at the end of the day, we need to learn some lessons rather than lash out.
For the record, I entirely agree with numbers 3 and 4 on your list, in fact number 3 nearly turned me towards voting conservative.
I was unemployed for two years back in the 90s under Major, and it sucked but I didn't expect it was supposed to be fun. I understand that it's harder now, so my experience probably isn't as applicable as it once was.
But thanks. I've tried very hard - and gone through several rewrites - to be as open as possible because so many people I know seem so confused and angry and I know that getting in their faces will just make that worse. A soft answer turneth away wrath and all that.
No worries. You're quite right, it's never fun being unemployed, just frustrating trying to find work with none to be had, or the vicious circle of no-experience-no-work-no-work-no-experience but I'm getting closer. I was a bit uneasy with Cameron's 'incentives' to get into work when it's hard enough as it is, but as they say 'life rewards the dogged' I guess.
I'm more of a centrist anyway, and bounce between left and right on most issues, or liberal-libertarian. But I think for some of these crybabies you might as well talk to a brick wall.
I've flirted with other parties before now as well, so I wouldn't call myself a tribalist either.
But you're right, alas. I've read one "open letter" style reply, which as far as I can make out was telling me that I'm either a) heartless, b) stupid or c) a dupe who is actively colluding in my own oppression.
If the gulf is that wide, I have to conclude that I probably can't bridge it.
Hmm... That came off a bit harsh, I think- it's still rather soon and I know people are frightened/ confused/ angry etc, but if they want to rebuild an opposition they need to regroup. If they genuinely can't understand why people- not die hard Tories, but all the previously undecideds- would vote against them, there is no hope at all. Not evil, not stupid- trying to do what's best. This goes for everyone from SNP to the Lib Dems to Green to UKIP.
I know, and it's going to bite them I think. UKIP took 20% of the vote in Sunderland, where there are maybe 3 conservatives in the entire city, and yet they still insist it's disaffected conservative voters.
If you look at their policies, they've become quite old left wing 1970s stuff - all protectionism this and nationalising that.
Two things explain who Labour is really for. Firstly, the unions will never allow the party to support any public sector reforms that might threaten union power, which means any reduction in spending and anything that might increase competition or accountability. Secondly, New Labour never developed a coherent ideology but it did have consistent instincts. Its leading members consistently assumed that the answer to every problem was more government - more taxes, more regulation, more centralisation of power and more well-paid union members to run it all
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As you say, they need a tagline, a catchphrase or something so people will identify with it and vote for it, sweeping away everyone who's associated with Blair's toxic legacy and disassociating themselves publicly from him whenever he tries to make "helpful" comments would be useful as well, but that isn't going to happen either.
So credible opposition? I'm interested in seeing what will happen in their leadership elections but I don't hold out much hope for them in the short term, it'll take another election defeat (and a generation of people who forget about weren't alive for the Blair years to start voting) before they'll get anywhere...
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The great fight of the c20 was market vs command economies, and command economics lost. Unfortunately Labour have retreated back to it in a reflex anti-Blair action.
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At the start Blair was the hero, now he'll never be anything to most people other than a traitor.
Economics I barely know enough about to debate about with you :) But personality and history; that's more obvious.
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For the record, I entirely agree with numbers 3 and 4 on your list, in fact number 3 nearly turned me towards voting conservative.
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But thanks. I've tried very hard - and gone through several rewrites - to be as open as possible because so many people I know seem so confused and angry and I know that getting in their faces will just make that worse. A soft answer turneth away wrath and all that.
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I'm more of a centrist anyway, and bounce between left and right on most issues, or liberal-libertarian. But I think for some of these crybabies you might as well talk to a brick wall.
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But you're right, alas. I've read one "open letter" style reply, which as far as I can make out was telling me that I'm either a) heartless, b) stupid or c) a dupe who is actively colluding in my own oppression.
If the gulf is that wide, I have to conclude that I probably can't bridge it.
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Hmm... That came off a bit harsh, I think- it's still rather soon and I know people are frightened/ confused/ angry etc, but if they want to rebuild an opposition they need to regroup. If they genuinely can't understand why people- not die hard Tories, but all the previously undecideds- would vote against them, there is no hope at all. Not evil, not stupid- trying to do what's best. This goes for everyone from SNP to the Lib Dems to Green to UKIP.
- Helena
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You'd be amazed how much labour are in denial about the threat posed by UKIP.
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If you look at their policies, they've become quite old left wing 1970s stuff - all protectionism this and nationalising that.
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