Panel Notes from Con-Txt: Dubcon Fucking: How Does It Work?
Con.Txt 2014 Panel
Dubcon Fucking: How Does It Work?
Moderated by Ellen Fremedon; scribed by Dee Laundry
Notes below are as they were typed during the panel. If you attended, please feel free to comment with any points to add, or any corrections that are needed.
Ellen began by noting she wants this to be a "301" discussion instead of 101.
Genre fiction, tropes, and how we get here
Common tropes and where we get them
Pon farr - Star Trek
Sex Pollen - DC Comics and Star Trek
Sex as negotiating tool (chimpanzees using money for sex)
Animal soul bonds - Pern
Undercover (honey traps) - Bond, Mata Hari
Aliens Make Them Do It - Blake's 7, Star Trek
Possession -
Mind control - Vamprie
Shapeshifting - Zeus, Greek/Roman mythology
Slavefic
Love potion
Alcohol
Abuse recovery where consent is due to prior conditioning
Fuck or die
Why?
-> Good girls don't say 'yes' - Purity + sexy times - Did not feel freedom but would've liked the freedom to consent to
Societal pressure - sex without guilt
-> Excuse to get a pairing together -- Dubcon as catalyst for step they are too "stupid" to take on their own. Or step they are afraid to take, to change the relationship.
-> Short cutting emotional work to get sex. Skipping the emotional labor.
- Sometimes done inexpertly; writer doesn't realize what they've done
-> Dubious consent as a way to talk about consent within the story, where characters would not talk about consent
-> Dubcon in Vorkosgian fic "Within the culture, they cannot consent to men of my class"
-> Dubcon - situations where retroactive consent is possible
-> Hurt/comfort: Dubcon so that same character can be the hurt and comfort
Dubcon as a kink vs. dubcon as a warning
- Interrogative narrative device
- We have kinks for a reason, usually complicated, and how we cope with things around us
Both (all) have dubious consent vs. only one (some) has dubious consent
Sex pollen turns character into aggressor vs. victim
External vs. internal constraint
- Dubcon - when we acknowledge it is better
- Dubcon in male/male slash - to make men think about and talk about consent issues - Can be a way to distance from women's bodies in order to examine the concept
Dubcon as allegory for capitalism: Have no effective power to change or remove yourself from the system. Your only choice is whether to submit gracefully or submit fighting. The fic acknowledges the choice as important.
- The question of who owns your body at any particular time. The choice you make has value even when your array of options is limited.
- Putting the choice on the outside absolving you of guilt
Dubcon takes away the ability to say yes as well as the ability to say no.
It can become condescending.
Sex work, asexual freely having sex, D / S
- Having sex not because of enthusiastic consent, but still consent
REC: Due South, "The Politics of X" by Nancy (dubcon where sex pollen makes you the aggressor) Link to fic on AO3
You don't stop caring about someone who's done something iffy or awful -- it's tough as readers when we care about all the characters.
What is consent? Give each person the agency to declare their own definition of consent.
Dubcon restoring the ability to consent.
This entry was originally posted at http://deelaundry.dreamwidth.org/21547.html. Please comment there using OpenID.
Dubcon Fucking: How Does It Work?
Moderated by Ellen Fremedon; scribed by Dee Laundry
Notes below are as they were typed during the panel. If you attended, please feel free to comment with any points to add, or any corrections that are needed.
Ellen began by noting she wants this to be a "301" discussion instead of 101.
Genre fiction, tropes, and how we get here
Common tropes and where we get them
Pon farr - Star Trek
Sex Pollen - DC Comics and Star Trek
Sex as negotiating tool (chimpanzees using money for sex)
Animal soul bonds - Pern
Undercover (honey traps) - Bond, Mata Hari
Aliens Make Them Do It - Blake's 7, Star Trek
Possession -
Mind control - Vamprie
Shapeshifting - Zeus, Greek/Roman mythology
Slavefic
Love potion
Alcohol
Abuse recovery where consent is due to prior conditioning
Fuck or die
Why?
-> Good girls don't say 'yes' - Purity + sexy times - Did not feel freedom but would've liked the freedom to consent to
Societal pressure - sex without guilt
-> Excuse to get a pairing together -- Dubcon as catalyst for step they are too "stupid" to take on their own. Or step they are afraid to take, to change the relationship.
-> Short cutting emotional work to get sex. Skipping the emotional labor.
- Sometimes done inexpertly; writer doesn't realize what they've done
-> Dubious consent as a way to talk about consent within the story, where characters would not talk about consent
-> Dubcon in Vorkosgian fic "Within the culture, they cannot consent to men of my class"
-> Dubcon - situations where retroactive consent is possible
-> Hurt/comfort: Dubcon so that same character can be the hurt and comfort
Dubcon as a kink vs. dubcon as a warning
- Interrogative narrative device
- We have kinks for a reason, usually complicated, and how we cope with things around us
Both (all) have dubious consent vs. only one (some) has dubious consent
Sex pollen turns character into aggressor vs. victim
External vs. internal constraint
- Dubcon - when we acknowledge it is better
- Dubcon in male/male slash - to make men think about and talk about consent issues - Can be a way to distance from women's bodies in order to examine the concept
Dubcon as allegory for capitalism: Have no effective power to change or remove yourself from the system. Your only choice is whether to submit gracefully or submit fighting. The fic acknowledges the choice as important.
- The question of who owns your body at any particular time. The choice you make has value even when your array of options is limited.
- Putting the choice on the outside absolving you of guilt
Dubcon takes away the ability to say yes as well as the ability to say no.
It can become condescending.
Sex work, asexual freely having sex, D / S
- Having sex not because of enthusiastic consent, but still consent
REC: Due South, "The Politics of X" by Nancy (dubcon where sex pollen makes you the aggressor) Link to fic on AO3
You don't stop caring about someone who's done something iffy or awful -- it's tough as readers when we care about all the characters.
What is consent? Give each person the agency to declare their own definition of consent.
Dubcon restoring the ability to consent.
This entry was originally posted at http://deelaundry.dreamwidth.org/21547.html. Please comment there using OpenID.