Ok, I didn't mean to put Aeneas forward as every man, because we all know how easy it is to disprove an absolute. So there are certainly exceptions (and many) to both sides of the gender argument. I thought that in the context of conversation you and Alex were having that it would be safe for me to join in, but I certainly wasn't taking your side. I didn't join in man-hating, if that's what it came across as I totally missed my mark. I was trying to point out that we're flawed (deeply), we know it, and we usually are repentant for it. What else can be asked from us other than self-awareness and contrition? Don't answer that, because I know full well there's a lot more. You second point is right on as well, any man who follows Aeneas wants to be a hero but is simply a "hero". If they're also self-aware, they're realize that they aren't an actual hero YET and keep working for it...being sure to make apologies and repent on the way. I don't want to reduce women with what I'm saying (because I know the two of you could beat me up
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Sounds fair enough to me. But if there's nothing to be done, don't expect it.
What?
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