Die - Guitar History Interview Pt. 2 of 2
Die
Dir en grey - Guitar History Interview Pt. 2 of 2
On stage, Die supports the band from the kamite (note: right-hand side of stage from the audience’ s view). He seems to be an aesthesia guitarist that plays with borderline tension, but
He is actually a hard worker as well as a passionate person.
If you read the previous interview of Kaoru,
You would realize how the two have the same sensitivity as their primordial.
I was always a kendo boy.
The rod changed from a bamboo sword (shinai) to guitar.
-I would like to hear about when you started playing guitar. I would think at first, you had an enormous shock from some sort of music to begin guitar.
Die: When I was in elementary school and junior high school, I had no interest in music. So I wasn’t interested in bands at all. I was aware of my friends listening to band stuff, but that didn’t make me listen to them.
-Once you’re in your early adolescence, even if you weren’t in a band, you would start listening to music right?
Die: Some began bands, but I was constantly doing kendo.
-Kendo!? I didn’t know that.
Die: Oh, did you hear that for the first time? I was always a kendo boy. So the rod changed from a shinai (note: bamboo sword) to guitar (laugh). Shinai to a guitar. No, it’s really like that; if you were to put it in a nice phrase. And when I was in first year of high school (note: sophomore in US high school)… I was slower than others; when I became interested in music. During the school festival in the high school I attended, the senpai (note: any upperclassman are referred like this) in the third year was doing a band. On top of that, my friend dragged me to the gymnasium. There weren’t any other place to go, so why not go to the gymnasium? There, I saw what a band is for the first time. I would watch music shows, but I thought the performance over there was a fake. Well, back then, they may have been faking it, but I even thought bands at real shows were not really playing. But they were actually playing; bursting.
-That was also the first time you’ve ever heard the band’s raw sound right?
Die: Yes, yes. That was the first. I’m from a rural area, so I never had any opportunity to see that kind of stuff. The band my senpai did was a cover band though. At the moment my senpai’s band’s show finished, I was like, “I’m going to be in a band!”
-Was a band that shocking to you?
Die: Yes. I wonder what it was. Once the live started, I got into it the whole time.
-You were intrigued by the band then?
Die: Yes, yes. As I watched them, I thought, “Oh, this is for me.” “I want to do this.” At the time, I didn’t know anything about drums, guitar, or bass. I didn’t even know what the difference was between a guitar and bass. But I still wanted to do a band. There were many people that played guitar, so I decided to do drums (laugh).
-I didn’t know that either (laugh).
Die: It’s true; I first started with drum. I didn’t mind doing any part. I just wanted to be in a band. I received an enormous shock to that degree. And, the guitarist who was in my senpai’s band at the school festival was a member of the student council. That kind of person dyed his hair bright blonde and went up on stage. My school was a rather serious high school. It was a newly built school too. The school regulations were strict and blonde hair was a taboo. Even so, that senpai (note: the guitarist) had blonde hair and played guitar, and I was shocked by that.
-You witnessed your senpai change into a different person 180 degrees playing the guitar?
Die: Right, right. For me, that senpai was my first guitar hero. He’s in the student council, but he’s also in a band. That stance was cool.
-It seems to be a likely situation in manga.
Die: Yep. That was also cool.
-But you went straight ahead to do a band instead of becoming a member of the student council?
Die: No, I actually became part of the student council during my third year (note: senior year) in high school (laugh). I followed what that senpai did. In order to be in charge of the band during school festival, I ran for the position by nominating myself and became one.
-You acted very quickly (laugh). But your passion towards a band must have been that high. By the way, what happened to the drum you began during your first year in high school?
Die: When I think up of something, I act upon it right away. The drummer in my senpai’s band had a drum set he wasn’t using at his home, so he (senpai) asked him if I could have it for a cheap price. And I set up the drums in my room, as a substitute for muting, I used Shonen Jump (note: manga magazine), and battered around (laugh). From the way my parents saw this, it was like what is going on. Before, I used to do kendo and all of the sudden it’s gotten so loud with the banging noise (laugh). I began drum that way, but you know~ drums are always behind and it wasn’t too fun. I wanted to be in the front like the guitarists. People that played guitar got to practice with raw sounds, and I began to think guitar would be better for me. I began to do a little bit of guitar too. A year later, I found out about D’ERLANGER.
-While you played drum, as an active person, did you begin a band with your friends at school?
Die: I couldn’t start it up. There really weren’t people around. So I was playing on my own.
-Did you play drum while you had some music on at home? What kind of songs did you cover?
Die: Senpai covered ZIGGY, so I also imitated what my senpai did and practiced ZIGGY.
-But isn’t it boring playing drums alone?
Die: It’s like, what matters if you practice alone (laugh). And, you definitely can’t play at night. But with guitar, you could practice at night, and once again, I thought guitar was it for me. At first, I covered BUCK-TICK on guitar.
-When you began playing drum, did you also start to listen to different band’s music?
Die: I think so. I started listening to music my friends listened to. As I would listen to them, I could hear it clearly, being aware of the guitar sounds. This made me want to play guitar even more. With drum, overall, there were many bands that only played with 8 beats, so even if I played, it was boring. On the other hand, guitar phrases would just dash in, and it made me want to learn them.
I would play even if would lie sideways on bed. And I would just fall asleep like that.
-How did you obtain your first guitar?
Die: That was also from the same blonde senpai (laugh). He of course had a guitar he wasn’t using, so I asked him if he could sell his Aria pro II strut type to me for 10,000 yen.
-Was it a single coil strut type?
Die: No, it was the one that had a humbucker installed. You need to use a hexagon wrench where it had a rock nut on the guitar, and I thought, “How am I going to change the strings” (laugh)? The strings on the guitar were all rusty too.
-Did you learn how to play and use the guitar from that senpai?
Die: I didn’t have that kind of time. I just went to his house to pick up the guitar. We barely knew each other (laugh). So I asked my friend who had a guitar on how to exchange the strings.
-You had a senpai that was in a band and a friend that played guitar around you, and it seems like your area was active with people in band despite the fact that it was a rural area.
Die: No, it wasn’t active. When I would talk to the members (Dir en grey) about when we began to do bands, the place I grew up wasn’t active at all. There were limited people that played instruments or those that were in a band.
-Then in front of me, am I seeing one of the few people (laugh)?
Die: What (laugh)?
-You must’ve improved your guitar skills quickly then?
Die: I was learning how to play guitar little by little, but now that I think back, it didn’t really feel like I was “playing”. But once I got back home, I played guitar the entire time. I would play even if I lie sideways on bed. And I would kind of fall asleep like that. Really, I just kept playing.
-What was so good about guitar that made you so immersed?
Die: I wonder what it was (laugh). I don’t know what that is. But I was so into it to the point where I didn’t see anything else. It was to the point where I didn’t have to eat.
-Then you must have gotten better at guitar if you loved it so much. Comparing to others, you must have progressed quickly, no?
Die: Ah, I may have that. I felt like I wouldn’t lose against anyone with guitar. It felt like I’ve finally gained something, and I was always confident of how I wouldn’t lose with this.
-Do you have dan (note: 段is the way to count the level in kendo) in kendo?
Die: It’s just ni-dan. So it was two swords, two swords (laugh). I was the two sword user of shinai and guitar. I did kendo for three years in high school. I would play guitar after my club activity. After holding the shinai, I would hold the guitar. Even if I was tired after the extracurricular activity, playing guitar was completely fine. I loved it that much. It’s not tiring. Kendo practice is exhausting though (laugh). I think I changed in that way.
-Your passion towards kendo shifted to guitar then?
Die: Right. I actually wanted to quit kendo because I wanted to do band more. But if I quitted, that would leave things unfinished. Since I immersed myself into kendo until then, I needed to finish it until the third (last) year of high school. So I thought of playing guitar while I also did kendo, and I decided to continue both. When I would do a live during winter break, I would just assume that there wouldn’t be practice for my club that day, and I would go book a place with my friend (laugh). I would pray for there to be no kendo practice. And then, of course, there wasn’t practice. All right, I could do a live. It was that kind of groove.
-You’ve been good on a daily basis.
Die: You’ve said a good thing. I also think the same (laugh).
-The live you’ve booked, did you gain experience as a guitarist to be on stage while you were in high school?
Die: You know, I couldn’t do a band of my own. Even if there were people that played musical instruments, there weren’t enough to form a band. In the end, I had to play the drum. I didn’t have a high school life where I would jam on my guitar. I just played at home.
-So your first stage was as a drummer?
Die: I don’t remember how my first stage was. I was helping out my friend’s band by playing guitar, but their style wasn’t what I wanted to do. I was really just a help guitarist.
-Was it a difficult three years being unable to progress the way you wanted?
Die: I guess so. I couldn’t do what I wanted. But I was able to do music and band, so that was fun. Also, since I couldn’t jam on my guitar for a very long time, I think it was actually better.
-In order to heighten your motivation?
Die: Right, right. Because I wasn’t able to do it, my feelings were welling up.
-Did you really start as a guitarist after graduating high school?
Die: U~m, I was kind of a blank after getting out of high school. I went to a vocational school to learn about music. When I was in high school, I thought, “If I went to a vocational school that taught guitar, it would be fun playing the guitar every day.” But guitar isn’t something that should be taught. I just wanted to be at a place of music, so I entered the PA department.
-I didn’t know you had that kind of past.
Die: I’m going to say a lot of stuff you didn’t know today (laugh). I was in the PA department for about a year, but I was pretty much playing around.
-Do you have a little knowledge on how to use the mixing table?
Die: I don’t know it at all (laugh).
-Didn’t you go to school (laugh)?
Die: No, I went to school. The vocational school was near Osaka Kousei Nenkin Hall, and it had all kinds of shows there. Thinking there would be dangerous people gathering, they had Ei-chan’s (note: Nickname for Yazawa Eikichi who is a very famous rock musician) live (laugh). I was watching that, and thinking, “Wow, so many (people) here.” I wasn’t doing any band at the time.
-You were so passionate during high school though.
Die: Yeah… Inside me, it wasn’t like giving up but I was down. At one point, there was period where I cooled off (from bands).
It was only D’ERLANGER, just CIPHER, CIPHER.
-Didn’t you at least bring your Aria Pro II strut-type to Osaka?
Die: No, I was attending there from my home in Mie. It was one hour (travel) for one-way. But I wasn’t in a band so after school, I began stopping by instrument shops in Osaka. There would be so many ads that posted members wanted ads right? As I saw them, I wanted to be in a band again. I began to regain my motivation towards bands. I also thought of how there were so many bands in Osaka.
-Back in high school, you thought how you wouldn’t lose with guitar, so was this to test your skills in Osaka?
Die: Yep. I dropped out of the vocational school after a year and decided to be in a band. I ripped off a wanted ad for guitarist at an instrument store and made a phone call…
-What kind of things were written on the ad? There must have been something that made you curious to make a phone call.
Die: True. It seemed to have a nice feeling (laugh). From the atmosphere of the sentences, it felt like they would accept a country fellow (laugh). I was just reading a music magazine called BAND Yarouze (note: Let’s do a band) and on the member’s corner, it had the same person (of the ad) on. Seeing him twice made me think it was fate. But that was correct, now that I think back.
-Your passion towards guitar began to inflame again right?
Die: It was heightened suddenly. It was to the point where no one could follow me. All the members were older than me, but we didn’t have too many songs so once I joined that band, I made all the songs. With lives, we did 2 to 3 per month in Osaka, but you know, I was thinking, “Don’t you guys want to go somewhere higher?” “Aren’t your motivations low?” But when I was in that band, I did a live with Kaoru-kun’s band.
-Before that, you accepted to compose by yourself in the band right? When did you begin music composition?
Die: I wonder how long it’s been. I think it was near the end of high school. I used to shred at the time too (laugh). I thought of trying out everything I could for now.
-Did you do flashy numbers that would make a guitarist stand out?
Die: No, before that, I encountered D’ERLANGER. Previously, I mentioned about encountering D’ERLANGER a year after beginning guitar. When I was in the second year of high school, the senpai that was a year above me did a cover band of D’ERLANGER. And that was really cool. Near them, there was D’ERLANGER’s score book. That was D’ERLANGER’s outdoor live one. They were different from other bands that wore make up. The song’s atmosphere was cool too. From that point on, it was D’ERLANGER all the way. Just CIPHER, CIPHER. This was when D’ERLANGER had already disbanded. But from there, I bought a CIPHER model, watched many videos, and had the same length of strap (as CIPHER). I would look at the mirror, saying, “If it’s up to here, would it be around CIPHER’s.” I kept doing that once I came back home (laugh). Because of that, I think the phrases I play naturally became like CIPHER’s.
-D’ERLANGER used to call themselves “Sadistical Punk” in their beginning phase where they were sharp, but had range after their major debut. For each album, they changed their approach right? Which phase of D’ERLANGER did you get into?
Die: I didn’t know their fierce time in the beginning phase of their indies. I didn’t imagine him having his hair up holding a Les Paul Type in his hand. If I would say CIPHER, he had his hair all back and played a telecast type; that image was the strongest for me.
-That was indeed when they had their last live at the Hibiya Yaon.
Die: Right, right. I watched the video until it would wear out. In my mind, I know which song would appear in what scene as it would pop up in my mind; even now. Back in high school, I basically went back home because I looked forward to D’ERLANGER. Finishing my club activity, “I can finally play D’ERLANGER; I can be CIPHER” (laugh).
-Even before, you listened to all kinds of bands, but D’ERLANGER became an enormous existence for you.
Die: Right. It clicked, and I got into them. I can’t explain in words what that was. The feeling is close to the time when I was in first year of high school where I saw my senpai’s band. But the senpai from D’ERLANGER’s cover band told me, “We’re going to fire the current vocalist so you do the vocals” (laugh). I declined their offer politely saying, “Singing is arduous”; but I appreciate him for letting me know about D’ERLANGER.
-Then, are your original songs extremely similar to D’ERLANGER’s?
Die: Yep (laugh). It may have been close. Rather than close, there were some parts that were exactly the same (laugh). But I began making songs from that point.
-You began to do be active in Osaka with those original songs then? As a guitarist, it was like your first stage, no?
Die: Switching my loose end feelings, I decided to do it seriously. But I didn’t have any information to do a band when I was in Mie. I thought if I did lives at Osaka, people would gather on its own. But in reality, even if you do a show, the recruited audience wouldn’t increase and we would always have to pay for the remaining tickets (laugh). The other members thought this to be natural. “No, that’s not it; this is not good.” And, you can tell without talking how motivated they were.
-Whether it’s for real or a hobby?
Die: Right, right. They’re kind of satisfied here. As I would do lives many times in Osaka, I began to feel some kind of rift. That’s when I got this offer from Kyo-kun…
-You got a call from him?
Die:Well, it’s a pretty amusing story. At the time, I showed up at a place called Amagasaki Live Square, and I posted up upcoming show announcements. Kyo-kun seemed to have looked at that by coincidence, and he decided on me. It was just a show announcement ad. We had our band photo up, but it was black and white you know? He saw that and decided so.
-Were you personally acquainted with him?
Die: No acquaintance at all. He has never come to our show, and I didn’t know about Kyo-kun either.
-Did you have the ad being focused on friendliness and looked friendly (laugh)?
Die: No, not friendly. But that encounter, or rather, contingency, made me think of how immense fate was. I still think that too. I mean you can’t just trust it; bands’ ads are posted everywhere. I also think he didn’t choose it saying which one he should decide on. I wonder why he pointed and decided at the black and white photo of me when we’ve never had any acquaintance.
-You’ve never heard the reason?
Die: Reason… I forgot. Since I forgot about it, I guess there’s no real reason behind that then.
-I’ve once heard from Kyo-kun that he decided on you because you looked cool when he saw that photo.
Die: If that’s the case, I’m happy.
-You must have been a remote existence then.
Die: No, no (embarrassed). But you need to have courage to decide on someone you don’t know what kind of person he is. I was called by them directly when I did a live with them. “Let’s talk after it’s finished.” But I thought that was just being polite. It’s usual to be called from the other band members saying, “Let’s drink next time.” So after the live was finished, I left (laugh). And a couple of weeks later, I had a chance to see them again, and they asked me, “Why did you leave (laugh)?” I thought, I’m sorry but I thought it was out of politeness. “Then, let’s talk seriously today.” And they talked to me. They were going to create a new band and they wanted me to join as a guitarist. That was when I heard how they chose me by looking at the advertisement. At the time, I was losing my passion towards the band I was in, and I thought this was a good opportunity. A few days later, this time, I contacted Kyo-kun replying, “I’ll join.”
-Did things progress quickly since you did a show together with them, and knew what kind of musicians they were and vice versa?
Die: Well, when I did a live with them, Kyo-kun wasn’t really in the band. He joined in the band as a guest. And he was really popular to the degree I’ve never seen before. I could see he was popular. His singing appearance was cool and I thought he was great. Kyo-kun had a longer band experience and he was doing stuff that was completely different. He was ahead of our time. During that time, the difference between careers was huge, and it made Kyo-kun look big.
Rather than practice, I acquired my guitar skills through hands-on experience.
-And what began was the preceding band to DIR EN GREY right? How did you create songs and establish your own style?
Die: It was a 5-people band. I only had experience in a 4-people band. On top of that, they asked me to do lead guitar. I kept playing single tone phrases. 2 months later, Kaoru-kun joins, and Kaoru-kun did riffs and backing. I played most of the solo. We made the songs together, and I played phrases that I wanted to play. At the time, I would play with the harmonizer on frequently. My guitar was a telecast type, the amp was also Roland JC-120, and the multi-effector was Roland GP-16. From rhythm to lead to everything, I created sounds with that combination.
-Those equipments could certainly be used for beat rock?
Die: Yes, but the previous band had different kind of tune. But overall it was intense. Also, Kaoru-kun had a humbucker and I would tear up on the single coil, and cutting that had an edge.
-At the time, was the telecast type a CIPHER model?
Die: Yes. The color was blue though.
-When you tore up the chords, did you feel like D’ERLANGER?
Die: Well, I was feeling it.
-Like the angle of the slouched posture when you stroke?
Die: Yeah, yeah. I think I had that.
- Did you ever clash with Kaoru-kun who is a completely opposite guitarist in style and approach?
Die: Back then, it was two people that didn’t have too much experience in recording, so we had a let’s work together groove. We directed each other in recording too. Rather than clashing, we came up with phrases quickly as we worked together. If you’re going to play it that way, then I’ll play it this way. We weren’t playing the same thing. We never fought either.
-Up to now, you’ve never for once had a battle then?
Die: Nope. But while we seem like polar opposites, we have similarity. It’s how both of us aren’t being all guitarist, guitarist. These two aren’t guitar nerds (note: he originally used the “otaku”). We’re more live and live. When it came to lives, our performance was rough. If we were technique-oriented, at the point when we teamed up, there would have been a difference between our skills, and we may have had problems. But our direction was always towards our shows. That kind of tension was constantly the same. I think we were seeing the same place.
-The two being in the same part, did you see each other as rivals?
Die: I don’t think so. If our guitar styles were similar, I think that was possible, but our foundation is different.
- Even though you really put your life to make highly energized stage, before going on stage, you also need guitar skills. Do you have any memory practicing really hard?
Die: It wasn’t really practice, but since we had so many lives, I didn’t have time to practice. And that period was the most difficult time of my life; in terms of living. I wouldn’t have any money either. When you seriously begin a band, I think it’s something anyone would experience. At the time, I wore contact lenses, but one of them broke or I lost it. But I didn’t have any money to buy another one, so I did shows only wearing one contact lens. But it was the repetition of studio and lives. So I think I acquired the guitar skills than practice.
- It’s difficult to live, but it was more important for you to do band and shows.
Die: Yes. That was my start.
I never changed intentionally.
It’s not that I’ve changed something but it began to change.
- That’s why even now, lives become your motivation in life and it’s very important to you. Since Dir en grey’s formation, did the good feelings of lives and stimulations change?
Die: That did change. But I think that began to change when Dir en grey made a debut (major). As we did many shows, you start to see a lot of stuff. I would see my challenge, my level of satisfaction would also increase, and there would definitely be a struggle within myself.
- A struggle. What was your first actual obstacle where if you do not surpass this, you can’t go to the next place?
Die: Something like how do you play the guitar during a show (laugh)? When it comes to lives, movements are also important. But you need to play well too. My first obstacle was to be able to establish both. I didn’t have too many techniques. Is this all right? To be this messy? The lives were always like that though (laugh). Our feelings ran ahead. But I thought it shouldn’t be like this, and when I tried to play well, is this really all right? I wonder about focusing my feelings just on performance? Do you call that a live? And if you only do lives, you take for granted that if you play a song it will create excitement, and be all like this view again?
-There would be a strange numbness occurring?
Die: Yes, that’s right. Who do I think I am (laugh)? Excitement is a good thing. But thinking that it’s natural is (bitter smile). I had this strange psychological period.
-However, I think your obstacle with your playing skill would be solved if you would simply make your strap shorter (laugh).
Die: This is just my stubbornness. If I would make that easy for myself, there’s a strange sense of danger where it would no longer be me. If I think I’m being too easy on myself, I would make my strap even longer.
-But normally, you can’t play with that. First off, your hands wouldn’t be able to reach up to the bridge.
Die: No, you could if you try. It’s sort of how my appearance should be. It’s not esthetics, but I have something similar to that. Some sort of my consciousness. I say that I want do things near the borderline, and I don’t like it if I don’t feel that from the point where I dangle my guitar. I don’t like it when I’m being easy and be “It’s easy to play.” It’s something like it’s tough and tough. My body is yearning for it.
-You feel like you’re alive by having that skintight thrill and pleasure?
Die: Yep, right, right. It’s tiring though.
-It must be from practicing kendo for a long time. You give pain and by overcoming that, you become real. This is now a mentality of a samurai.
Die: Samurai spirits? But when I play guitar, I need that skintight tension. Because I’m doing that, it feels good when I play improvisations. When I play with that tension, the phrases evolve. The older songs have changed quite a bit. This evolved because I played with that skintight tension; it’s not intentional. I don’t do any practicing at home and be like I’ll play it like this for the next show. For each live, they (songs) evolved within that borderline tension. I didn’t change them, but it’s beginning to change.
-The improvisations exert your straight feelings.
Die: Right, right. So when I listen to my guitar play after the live, the song changed because I wanted to play it that way at that moment. Rather, it makes me think that way.
-When you listen to your play later, can you even understand your mind-set on that day?
Die: Yep, that’s right. It’s like that for each show. So I wonder what kind of stuff would come out from me. When my excitement rises, I can’t even read what’s going to come out; especially with guitar solos. The recent songs don’t have any guitar solos, but for older songs with guitar solos, I never decided on how I should play them. Once it’s solo time, I wonder what kind of resonance would be created by me. There are time when I get it right and times when it went wrong. But when I got it right, there’s a sense of good feeling, so I can’t stop that.
I eliminated my taboo. It’s all right to be freer.
-As you would continue those lives, from 2005, you began to gain experience with stages in Europe and the U.S. Since you cherish your feelings and tension, did the change of environment and atmosphere affect you?
Die: No, it wasn’t like that. The difference between countries or environment doesn’t matter. No matter which country it may be, there’s no difference of playing guitar once I get up on stage. My feeling towards playing is the same.
-You’re a samurai after all. You’re very stoic. Some people stagger when they’re put in a different environment.
Die: What I need to do is already decided. When I get up on stage, I play the guitar, within the borderline tension. That’s the same.
-Did you receive some sort of shock at overseas?
Die: I didn’t have any drastic change on my guitar view. Rather, I thought that I should be who I am. When I would attend huge rock festivals, watching guitarists from many bands, on the contrary (note: of assimilating), I need to be more of myself. We’re Japanese and our environment where we grew up differs from the bands over there. I think it’s all right to do what we’ve been nurturing up to now. The bands in the U.S. have many people that grew up in a situation where rock (music) was around them since they were young. So rather than staggering about it, I should be who I am.
-When it turns into that kind of a mind set, you must be more interested in something that emerges from you, no?
Die: I have that. Recently, I’m beginning to think like that. I want to evolve more. Of course, I should be who I am, but I want to find more possibilities within myself. Because I have that, I think it’s wrong to strangely say that I’m this kind of guitarist in a definitive way.
-At one point, did you have that kind of thing?
Die: That’s not something I should decide, but I did have a time period where I was deeply involved. I should be doing this. Even with recording or song making, if it were me, it would be this phrase. There was a period where I had that kind of a mindset.
-Ah, you were tied up with Die’s image that the people around you withheld.
Die: Yes, yes, that’s correct. There was a time like that. Now, there’s nothing of that sort.
-Specifically, what do you think was the turning point for the change?
Die: It’s not like how and where it changed. I guess it was during the recording of “UROBOROS”. So it’s when we entered 2008. But it must have been a natural flow. Doing lives at different places, there probably was something I personally felt. I wanted stimulations towards myself. So I thought of making myself more open and flat. That way, I could change more and more.
-When you were working on songs in “UROBOROS,” did you realize yourself evolving?
Die: I guess I changed as I would make the songs. I would be like, this is not good, this is not good. This was towards my thinking.
-You became dissatisfied with what you came up?
Die: Yep. If it were like this, it should be this kind of approach. There would be me that would think like that. For once, I wanted to lose that. No, no, let’s think more, are there other ways? I would ask myself those things. During the production period of “UROBOROS,” it was that repetition. I think I was able to change tremendously from it.
-You were able to look at one song from various angles?
Die: I have that. Originally, music is a free thing. Then, why am I making assumptions? Without realizing, I think I planted something, which nearly made me lose that freedom.
-As you know more about the know-how, you learn how to take a short-cut. But for a guy that lives under a skintight tension, you couldn’t forgive that.
Die: Right. If I basically do this, the result would turn out like this would be obvious. But, if I saw the result or story, it was no good for me. I wanted unpredictability for everything. Even with a small guitar approach too.
-With the evolving in your thinking, did your partner, Kaoru-kun, notice it?
Die: We don’t really talk about that kind of topic. But I think he noticed it. I mean I didn’t use my right hand.
-You’re talking about tapping right? You were tapping during “Gaika, Chinmoku Ga Nemurukoro,” and I was surprised during the live. Before, did you decide prematurely that you’re a guitarist that shouldn’t use tapping?
Die: I had that. I was resolute on never using it. But I thought I should lose that taboo; it’s all right to be freer.
-By losing your taboo, you were able to shape a phrase that you wouldn’t play before?
Die: Yep, that’s right. And, that kind of stuff was stimulating for me. Tapping stimulated me where it produced soft sounds that can’t be made through picking. I must say you shouldn’t be absolute about your vision as a guitarist.
-The selfish assumption about the likeliness of yourself became your biggest obstacle then?
Die: Maybe. I think I had that where I wasn’t conscious of it.
Songs in “UROBOROS” opened me up more.
-The production for “UROBOROS” must have been hard, but as you would do it more, an unknown element arose from you, so it must have been rather exciting every day, no?
Die: Well, it was actually like that. Really, recording was fun. The songs in that album made me open up myself more; I seemed to be called upon (by the songs). Rather than “UROBOROS” forming from something that arose from me, it was actually “UROBOROS” polishing me. That sensation may be stronger. While I was recording, it may have been too fulfilling (laugh).
-During the six-month of recording period, what is something you remember the most?
Die: That has to be when I would think of guitar arrangement and creating sounds. Even when you create one sound, from the vast image first, with Kaoru-kun, the two of us were being, “Let’s do this more,” and we had trial and error. This time, more than any albums, the two of us were working close. It felt like the two of us were creating the world-view. Really, the two of us were in the studio a lot.
-The situation must be close to the time when you first formed the guitar combo (note: this is close to the word they used, which was コンビ [konbi], but team would probably be the English word), no?
Die: It’s close. Even when you say back in the days, it really feels like the time when we really met. Even before “GAUZE”’s time. You just said combo before, but it really was a combination during the recording of “UROBOROS”. It was fun. If he (Kaoru) was here, I could do something interesting with him. It was like that.
-You also have trust (towards Kaoru).
Die: Yes. But I think of that not only towards Kaoru-kun, but as well as Kyo-kun, Toshiya, and Shinya. This is an issue that comes before music. It’s like an emotional aspect. Since we did it together for such a long time, I could tell if someone’s feeling is missing. Everyone has been doing this band with the same thoughts, and that’s why we’re here now. If even one is missing, we can’t do it.
-Your culmination up to now is “UROBOROS”, and at the same time, you could see new possibilities in this album. You mentioned before on how you shouldn’t create your vision as a guitarist, but do you have any ideals regarding the band in the near future?
Die: You mean how it will be? We haven’t decided that, and I don’t want to decide. I think it’s good as we constantly evolve as we do one show at a time. It should evolve as we do more and more. I think that’s DIR EN GREY.
-Listening to you, I could sense how you seem to have broken your shell.
Die: My feet have landed on the ground (note: 地に足がつく [Ji ni ashi ga tsuku]. This is an expression where it means how one’s action and feeling are solid.), finally. Experiencing various things, my feet have finally landed on the ground, “Okay, it’s from now.” I have that feeling. But I’m not conscientious on how I want to do this for a long time or be able to continue it. I think it’s good if we could continue as a result, but there’s no meaning if we’re void of content. It’s how I could incline my passion for each moment. I guess I like the constant skintight tension.
Translation: Cammie
Dir en grey - Guitar History Interview Pt. 2 of 2
On stage, Die supports the band from the kamite (note: right-hand side of stage from the audience’ s view). He seems to be an aesthesia guitarist that plays with borderline tension, but
He is actually a hard worker as well as a passionate person.
If you read the previous interview of Kaoru,
You would realize how the two have the same sensitivity as their primordial.
I was always a kendo boy.
The rod changed from a bamboo sword (shinai) to guitar.
-I would like to hear about when you started playing guitar. I would think at first, you had an enormous shock from some sort of music to begin guitar.
Die: When I was in elementary school and junior high school, I had no interest in music. So I wasn’t interested in bands at all. I was aware of my friends listening to band stuff, but that didn’t make me listen to them.
-Once you’re in your early adolescence, even if you weren’t in a band, you would start listening to music right?
Die: Some began bands, but I was constantly doing kendo.
-Kendo!? I didn’t know that.
Die: Oh, did you hear that for the first time? I was always a kendo boy. So the rod changed from a shinai (note: bamboo sword) to guitar (laugh). Shinai to a guitar. No, it’s really like that; if you were to put it in a nice phrase. And when I was in first year of high school (note: sophomore in US high school)… I was slower than others; when I became interested in music. During the school festival in the high school I attended, the senpai (note: any upperclassman are referred like this) in the third year was doing a band. On top of that, my friend dragged me to the gymnasium. There weren’t any other place to go, so why not go to the gymnasium? There, I saw what a band is for the first time. I would watch music shows, but I thought the performance over there was a fake. Well, back then, they may have been faking it, but I even thought bands at real shows were not really playing. But they were actually playing; bursting.
-That was also the first time you’ve ever heard the band’s raw sound right?
Die: Yes, yes. That was the first. I’m from a rural area, so I never had any opportunity to see that kind of stuff. The band my senpai did was a cover band though. At the moment my senpai’s band’s show finished, I was like, “I’m going to be in a band!”
-Was a band that shocking to you?
Die: Yes. I wonder what it was. Once the live started, I got into it the whole time.
-You were intrigued by the band then?
Die: Yes, yes. As I watched them, I thought, “Oh, this is for me.” “I want to do this.” At the time, I didn’t know anything about drums, guitar, or bass. I didn’t even know what the difference was between a guitar and bass. But I still wanted to do a band. There were many people that played guitar, so I decided to do drums (laugh).
-I didn’t know that either (laugh).
Die: It’s true; I first started with drum. I didn’t mind doing any part. I just wanted to be in a band. I received an enormous shock to that degree. And, the guitarist who was in my senpai’s band at the school festival was a member of the student council. That kind of person dyed his hair bright blonde and went up on stage. My school was a rather serious high school. It was a newly built school too. The school regulations were strict and blonde hair was a taboo. Even so, that senpai (note: the guitarist) had blonde hair and played guitar, and I was shocked by that.
-You witnessed your senpai change into a different person 180 degrees playing the guitar?
Die: Right, right. For me, that senpai was my first guitar hero. He’s in the student council, but he’s also in a band. That stance was cool.
-It seems to be a likely situation in manga.
Die: Yep. That was also cool.
-But you went straight ahead to do a band instead of becoming a member of the student council?
Die: No, I actually became part of the student council during my third year (note: senior year) in high school (laugh). I followed what that senpai did. In order to be in charge of the band during school festival, I ran for the position by nominating myself and became one.
-You acted very quickly (laugh). But your passion towards a band must have been that high. By the way, what happened to the drum you began during your first year in high school?
Die: When I think up of something, I act upon it right away. The drummer in my senpai’s band had a drum set he wasn’t using at his home, so he (senpai) asked him if I could have it for a cheap price. And I set up the drums in my room, as a substitute for muting, I used Shonen Jump (note: manga magazine), and battered around (laugh). From the way my parents saw this, it was like what is going on. Before, I used to do kendo and all of the sudden it’s gotten so loud with the banging noise (laugh). I began drum that way, but you know~ drums are always behind and it wasn’t too fun. I wanted to be in the front like the guitarists. People that played guitar got to practice with raw sounds, and I began to think guitar would be better for me. I began to do a little bit of guitar too. A year later, I found out about D’ERLANGER.
-While you played drum, as an active person, did you begin a band with your friends at school?
Die: I couldn’t start it up. There really weren’t people around. So I was playing on my own.
-Did you play drum while you had some music on at home? What kind of songs did you cover?
Die: Senpai covered ZIGGY, so I also imitated what my senpai did and practiced ZIGGY.
-But isn’t it boring playing drums alone?
Die: It’s like, what matters if you practice alone (laugh). And, you definitely can’t play at night. But with guitar, you could practice at night, and once again, I thought guitar was it for me. At first, I covered BUCK-TICK on guitar.
-When you began playing drum, did you also start to listen to different band’s music?
Die: I think so. I started listening to music my friends listened to. As I would listen to them, I could hear it clearly, being aware of the guitar sounds. This made me want to play guitar even more. With drum, overall, there were many bands that only played with 8 beats, so even if I played, it was boring. On the other hand, guitar phrases would just dash in, and it made me want to learn them.
I would play even if would lie sideways on bed. And I would just fall asleep like that.
-How did you obtain your first guitar?
Die: That was also from the same blonde senpai (laugh). He of course had a guitar he wasn’t using, so I asked him if he could sell his Aria pro II strut type to me for 10,000 yen.
-Was it a single coil strut type?
Die: No, it was the one that had a humbucker installed. You need to use a hexagon wrench where it had a rock nut on the guitar, and I thought, “How am I going to change the strings” (laugh)? The strings on the guitar were all rusty too.
-Did you learn how to play and use the guitar from that senpai?
Die: I didn’t have that kind of time. I just went to his house to pick up the guitar. We barely knew each other (laugh). So I asked my friend who had a guitar on how to exchange the strings.
-You had a senpai that was in a band and a friend that played guitar around you, and it seems like your area was active with people in band despite the fact that it was a rural area.
Die: No, it wasn’t active. When I would talk to the members (Dir en grey) about when we began to do bands, the place I grew up wasn’t active at all. There were limited people that played instruments or those that were in a band.
-Then in front of me, am I seeing one of the few people (laugh)?
Die: What (laugh)?
-You must’ve improved your guitar skills quickly then?
Die: I was learning how to play guitar little by little, but now that I think back, it didn’t really feel like I was “playing”. But once I got back home, I played guitar the entire time. I would play even if I lie sideways on bed. And I would kind of fall asleep like that. Really, I just kept playing.
-What was so good about guitar that made you so immersed?
Die: I wonder what it was (laugh). I don’t know what that is. But I was so into it to the point where I didn’t see anything else. It was to the point where I didn’t have to eat.
-Then you must have gotten better at guitar if you loved it so much. Comparing to others, you must have progressed quickly, no?
Die: Ah, I may have that. I felt like I wouldn’t lose against anyone with guitar. It felt like I’ve finally gained something, and I was always confident of how I wouldn’t lose with this.
-Do you have dan (note: 段is the way to count the level in kendo) in kendo?
Die: It’s just ni-dan. So it was two swords, two swords (laugh). I was the two sword user of shinai and guitar. I did kendo for three years in high school. I would play guitar after my club activity. After holding the shinai, I would hold the guitar. Even if I was tired after the extracurricular activity, playing guitar was completely fine. I loved it that much. It’s not tiring. Kendo practice is exhausting though (laugh). I think I changed in that way.
-Your passion towards kendo shifted to guitar then?
Die: Right. I actually wanted to quit kendo because I wanted to do band more. But if I quitted, that would leave things unfinished. Since I immersed myself into kendo until then, I needed to finish it until the third (last) year of high school. So I thought of playing guitar while I also did kendo, and I decided to continue both. When I would do a live during winter break, I would just assume that there wouldn’t be practice for my club that day, and I would go book a place with my friend (laugh). I would pray for there to be no kendo practice. And then, of course, there wasn’t practice. All right, I could do a live. It was that kind of groove.
-You’ve been good on a daily basis.
Die: You’ve said a good thing. I also think the same (laugh).
-The live you’ve booked, did you gain experience as a guitarist to be on stage while you were in high school?
Die: You know, I couldn’t do a band of my own. Even if there were people that played musical instruments, there weren’t enough to form a band. In the end, I had to play the drum. I didn’t have a high school life where I would jam on my guitar. I just played at home.
-So your first stage was as a drummer?
Die: I don’t remember how my first stage was. I was helping out my friend’s band by playing guitar, but their style wasn’t what I wanted to do. I was really just a help guitarist.
-Was it a difficult three years being unable to progress the way you wanted?
Die: I guess so. I couldn’t do what I wanted. But I was able to do music and band, so that was fun. Also, since I couldn’t jam on my guitar for a very long time, I think it was actually better.
-In order to heighten your motivation?
Die: Right, right. Because I wasn’t able to do it, my feelings were welling up.
-Did you really start as a guitarist after graduating high school?
Die: U~m, I was kind of a blank after getting out of high school. I went to a vocational school to learn about music. When I was in high school, I thought, “If I went to a vocational school that taught guitar, it would be fun playing the guitar every day.” But guitar isn’t something that should be taught. I just wanted to be at a place of music, so I entered the PA department.
-I didn’t know you had that kind of past.
Die: I’m going to say a lot of stuff you didn’t know today (laugh). I was in the PA department for about a year, but I was pretty much playing around.
-Do you have a little knowledge on how to use the mixing table?
Die: I don’t know it at all (laugh).
-Didn’t you go to school (laugh)?
Die: No, I went to school. The vocational school was near Osaka Kousei Nenkin Hall, and it had all kinds of shows there. Thinking there would be dangerous people gathering, they had Ei-chan’s (note: Nickname for Yazawa Eikichi who is a very famous rock musician) live (laugh). I was watching that, and thinking, “Wow, so many (people) here.” I wasn’t doing any band at the time.
-You were so passionate during high school though.
Die: Yeah… Inside me, it wasn’t like giving up but I was down. At one point, there was period where I cooled off (from bands).
It was only D’ERLANGER, just CIPHER, CIPHER.
-Didn’t you at least bring your Aria Pro II strut-type to Osaka?
Die: No, I was attending there from my home in Mie. It was one hour (travel) for one-way. But I wasn’t in a band so after school, I began stopping by instrument shops in Osaka. There would be so many ads that posted members wanted ads right? As I saw them, I wanted to be in a band again. I began to regain my motivation towards bands. I also thought of how there were so many bands in Osaka.
-Back in high school, you thought how you wouldn’t lose with guitar, so was this to test your skills in Osaka?
Die: Yep. I dropped out of the vocational school after a year and decided to be in a band. I ripped off a wanted ad for guitarist at an instrument store and made a phone call…
-What kind of things were written on the ad? There must have been something that made you curious to make a phone call.
Die: True. It seemed to have a nice feeling (laugh). From the atmosphere of the sentences, it felt like they would accept a country fellow (laugh). I was just reading a music magazine called BAND Yarouze (note: Let’s do a band) and on the member’s corner, it had the same person (of the ad) on. Seeing him twice made me think it was fate. But that was correct, now that I think back.
-Your passion towards guitar began to inflame again right?
Die: It was heightened suddenly. It was to the point where no one could follow me. All the members were older than me, but we didn’t have too many songs so once I joined that band, I made all the songs. With lives, we did 2 to 3 per month in Osaka, but you know, I was thinking, “Don’t you guys want to go somewhere higher?” “Aren’t your motivations low?” But when I was in that band, I did a live with Kaoru-kun’s band.
-Before that, you accepted to compose by yourself in the band right? When did you begin music composition?
Die: I wonder how long it’s been. I think it was near the end of high school. I used to shred at the time too (laugh). I thought of trying out everything I could for now.
-Did you do flashy numbers that would make a guitarist stand out?
Die: No, before that, I encountered D’ERLANGER. Previously, I mentioned about encountering D’ERLANGER a year after beginning guitar. When I was in the second year of high school, the senpai that was a year above me did a cover band of D’ERLANGER. And that was really cool. Near them, there was D’ERLANGER’s score book. That was D’ERLANGER’s outdoor live one. They were different from other bands that wore make up. The song’s atmosphere was cool too. From that point on, it was D’ERLANGER all the way. Just CIPHER, CIPHER. This was when D’ERLANGER had already disbanded. But from there, I bought a CIPHER model, watched many videos, and had the same length of strap (as CIPHER). I would look at the mirror, saying, “If it’s up to here, would it be around CIPHER’s.” I kept doing that once I came back home (laugh). Because of that, I think the phrases I play naturally became like CIPHER’s.
-D’ERLANGER used to call themselves “Sadistical Punk” in their beginning phase where they were sharp, but had range after their major debut. For each album, they changed their approach right? Which phase of D’ERLANGER did you get into?
Die: I didn’t know their fierce time in the beginning phase of their indies. I didn’t imagine him having his hair up holding a Les Paul Type in his hand. If I would say CIPHER, he had his hair all back and played a telecast type; that image was the strongest for me.
-That was indeed when they had their last live at the Hibiya Yaon.
Die: Right, right. I watched the video until it would wear out. In my mind, I know which song would appear in what scene as it would pop up in my mind; even now. Back in high school, I basically went back home because I looked forward to D’ERLANGER. Finishing my club activity, “I can finally play D’ERLANGER; I can be CIPHER” (laugh).
-Even before, you listened to all kinds of bands, but D’ERLANGER became an enormous existence for you.
Die: Right. It clicked, and I got into them. I can’t explain in words what that was. The feeling is close to the time when I was in first year of high school where I saw my senpai’s band. But the senpai from D’ERLANGER’s cover band told me, “We’re going to fire the current vocalist so you do the vocals” (laugh). I declined their offer politely saying, “Singing is arduous”; but I appreciate him for letting me know about D’ERLANGER.
-Then, are your original songs extremely similar to D’ERLANGER’s?
Die: Yep (laugh). It may have been close. Rather than close, there were some parts that were exactly the same (laugh). But I began making songs from that point.
-You began to do be active in Osaka with those original songs then? As a guitarist, it was like your first stage, no?
Die: Switching my loose end feelings, I decided to do it seriously. But I didn’t have any information to do a band when I was in Mie. I thought if I did lives at Osaka, people would gather on its own. But in reality, even if you do a show, the recruited audience wouldn’t increase and we would always have to pay for the remaining tickets (laugh). The other members thought this to be natural. “No, that’s not it; this is not good.” And, you can tell without talking how motivated they were.
-Whether it’s for real or a hobby?
Die: Right, right. They’re kind of satisfied here. As I would do lives many times in Osaka, I began to feel some kind of rift. That’s when I got this offer from Kyo-kun…
-You got a call from him?
Die:Well, it’s a pretty amusing story. At the time, I showed up at a place called Amagasaki Live Square, and I posted up upcoming show announcements. Kyo-kun seemed to have looked at that by coincidence, and he decided on me. It was just a show announcement ad. We had our band photo up, but it was black and white you know? He saw that and decided so.
-Were you personally acquainted with him?
Die: No acquaintance at all. He has never come to our show, and I didn’t know about Kyo-kun either.
-Did you have the ad being focused on friendliness and looked friendly (laugh)?
Die: No, not friendly. But that encounter, or rather, contingency, made me think of how immense fate was. I still think that too. I mean you can’t just trust it; bands’ ads are posted everywhere. I also think he didn’t choose it saying which one he should decide on. I wonder why he pointed and decided at the black and white photo of me when we’ve never had any acquaintance.
-You’ve never heard the reason?
Die: Reason… I forgot. Since I forgot about it, I guess there’s no real reason behind that then.
-I’ve once heard from Kyo-kun that he decided on you because you looked cool when he saw that photo.
Die: If that’s the case, I’m happy.
-You must have been a remote existence then.
Die: No, no (embarrassed). But you need to have courage to decide on someone you don’t know what kind of person he is. I was called by them directly when I did a live with them. “Let’s talk after it’s finished.” But I thought that was just being polite. It’s usual to be called from the other band members saying, “Let’s drink next time.” So after the live was finished, I left (laugh). And a couple of weeks later, I had a chance to see them again, and they asked me, “Why did you leave (laugh)?” I thought, I’m sorry but I thought it was out of politeness. “Then, let’s talk seriously today.” And they talked to me. They were going to create a new band and they wanted me to join as a guitarist. That was when I heard how they chose me by looking at the advertisement. At the time, I was losing my passion towards the band I was in, and I thought this was a good opportunity. A few days later, this time, I contacted Kyo-kun replying, “I’ll join.”
-Did things progress quickly since you did a show together with them, and knew what kind of musicians they were and vice versa?
Die: Well, when I did a live with them, Kyo-kun wasn’t really in the band. He joined in the band as a guest. And he was really popular to the degree I’ve never seen before. I could see he was popular. His singing appearance was cool and I thought he was great. Kyo-kun had a longer band experience and he was doing stuff that was completely different. He was ahead of our time. During that time, the difference between careers was huge, and it made Kyo-kun look big.
Rather than practice, I acquired my guitar skills through hands-on experience.
-And what began was the preceding band to DIR EN GREY right? How did you create songs and establish your own style?
Die: It was a 5-people band. I only had experience in a 4-people band. On top of that, they asked me to do lead guitar. I kept playing single tone phrases. 2 months later, Kaoru-kun joins, and Kaoru-kun did riffs and backing. I played most of the solo. We made the songs together, and I played phrases that I wanted to play. At the time, I would play with the harmonizer on frequently. My guitar was a telecast type, the amp was also Roland JC-120, and the multi-effector was Roland GP-16. From rhythm to lead to everything, I created sounds with that combination.
-Those equipments could certainly be used for beat rock?
Die: Yes, but the previous band had different kind of tune. But overall it was intense. Also, Kaoru-kun had a humbucker and I would tear up on the single coil, and cutting that had an edge.
-At the time, was the telecast type a CIPHER model?
Die: Yes. The color was blue though.
-When you tore up the chords, did you feel like D’ERLANGER?
Die: Well, I was feeling it.
-Like the angle of the slouched posture when you stroke?
Die: Yeah, yeah. I think I had that.
- Did you ever clash with Kaoru-kun who is a completely opposite guitarist in style and approach?
Die: Back then, it was two people that didn’t have too much experience in recording, so we had a let’s work together groove. We directed each other in recording too. Rather than clashing, we came up with phrases quickly as we worked together. If you’re going to play it that way, then I’ll play it this way. We weren’t playing the same thing. We never fought either.
-Up to now, you’ve never for once had a battle then?
Die: Nope. But while we seem like polar opposites, we have similarity. It’s how both of us aren’t being all guitarist, guitarist. These two aren’t guitar nerds (note: he originally used the “otaku”). We’re more live and live. When it came to lives, our performance was rough. If we were technique-oriented, at the point when we teamed up, there would have been a difference between our skills, and we may have had problems. But our direction was always towards our shows. That kind of tension was constantly the same. I think we were seeing the same place.
-The two being in the same part, did you see each other as rivals?
Die: I don’t think so. If our guitar styles were similar, I think that was possible, but our foundation is different.
- Even though you really put your life to make highly energized stage, before going on stage, you also need guitar skills. Do you have any memory practicing really hard?
Die: It wasn’t really practice, but since we had so many lives, I didn’t have time to practice. And that period was the most difficult time of my life; in terms of living. I wouldn’t have any money either. When you seriously begin a band, I think it’s something anyone would experience. At the time, I wore contact lenses, but one of them broke or I lost it. But I didn’t have any money to buy another one, so I did shows only wearing one contact lens. But it was the repetition of studio and lives. So I think I acquired the guitar skills than practice.
- It’s difficult to live, but it was more important for you to do band and shows.
Die: Yes. That was my start.
I never changed intentionally.
It’s not that I’ve changed something but it began to change.
- That’s why even now, lives become your motivation in life and it’s very important to you. Since Dir en grey’s formation, did the good feelings of lives and stimulations change?
Die: That did change. But I think that began to change when Dir en grey made a debut (major). As we did many shows, you start to see a lot of stuff. I would see my challenge, my level of satisfaction would also increase, and there would definitely be a struggle within myself.
- A struggle. What was your first actual obstacle where if you do not surpass this, you can’t go to the next place?
Die: Something like how do you play the guitar during a show (laugh)? When it comes to lives, movements are also important. But you need to play well too. My first obstacle was to be able to establish both. I didn’t have too many techniques. Is this all right? To be this messy? The lives were always like that though (laugh). Our feelings ran ahead. But I thought it shouldn’t be like this, and when I tried to play well, is this really all right? I wonder about focusing my feelings just on performance? Do you call that a live? And if you only do lives, you take for granted that if you play a song it will create excitement, and be all like this view again?
-There would be a strange numbness occurring?
Die: Yes, that’s right. Who do I think I am (laugh)? Excitement is a good thing. But thinking that it’s natural is (bitter smile). I had this strange psychological period.
-However, I think your obstacle with your playing skill would be solved if you would simply make your strap shorter (laugh).
Die: This is just my stubbornness. If I would make that easy for myself, there’s a strange sense of danger where it would no longer be me. If I think I’m being too easy on myself, I would make my strap even longer.
-But normally, you can’t play with that. First off, your hands wouldn’t be able to reach up to the bridge.
Die: No, you could if you try. It’s sort of how my appearance should be. It’s not esthetics, but I have something similar to that. Some sort of my consciousness. I say that I want do things near the borderline, and I don’t like it if I don’t feel that from the point where I dangle my guitar. I don’t like it when I’m being easy and be “It’s easy to play.” It’s something like it’s tough and tough. My body is yearning for it.
-You feel like you’re alive by having that skintight thrill and pleasure?
Die: Yep, right, right. It’s tiring though.
-It must be from practicing kendo for a long time. You give pain and by overcoming that, you become real. This is now a mentality of a samurai.
Die: Samurai spirits? But when I play guitar, I need that skintight tension. Because I’m doing that, it feels good when I play improvisations. When I play with that tension, the phrases evolve. The older songs have changed quite a bit. This evolved because I played with that skintight tension; it’s not intentional. I don’t do any practicing at home and be like I’ll play it like this for the next show. For each live, they (songs) evolved within that borderline tension. I didn’t change them, but it’s beginning to change.
-The improvisations exert your straight feelings.
Die: Right, right. So when I listen to my guitar play after the live, the song changed because I wanted to play it that way at that moment. Rather, it makes me think that way.
-When you listen to your play later, can you even understand your mind-set on that day?
Die: Yep, that’s right. It’s like that for each show. So I wonder what kind of stuff would come out from me. When my excitement rises, I can’t even read what’s going to come out; especially with guitar solos. The recent songs don’t have any guitar solos, but for older songs with guitar solos, I never decided on how I should play them. Once it’s solo time, I wonder what kind of resonance would be created by me. There are time when I get it right and times when it went wrong. But when I got it right, there’s a sense of good feeling, so I can’t stop that.
I eliminated my taboo. It’s all right to be freer.
-As you would continue those lives, from 2005, you began to gain experience with stages in Europe and the U.S. Since you cherish your feelings and tension, did the change of environment and atmosphere affect you?
Die: No, it wasn’t like that. The difference between countries or environment doesn’t matter. No matter which country it may be, there’s no difference of playing guitar once I get up on stage. My feeling towards playing is the same.
-You’re a samurai after all. You’re very stoic. Some people stagger when they’re put in a different environment.
Die: What I need to do is already decided. When I get up on stage, I play the guitar, within the borderline tension. That’s the same.
-Did you receive some sort of shock at overseas?
Die: I didn’t have any drastic change on my guitar view. Rather, I thought that I should be who I am. When I would attend huge rock festivals, watching guitarists from many bands, on the contrary (note: of assimilating), I need to be more of myself. We’re Japanese and our environment where we grew up differs from the bands over there. I think it’s all right to do what we’ve been nurturing up to now. The bands in the U.S. have many people that grew up in a situation where rock (music) was around them since they were young. So rather than staggering about it, I should be who I am.
-When it turns into that kind of a mind set, you must be more interested in something that emerges from you, no?
Die: I have that. Recently, I’m beginning to think like that. I want to evolve more. Of course, I should be who I am, but I want to find more possibilities within myself. Because I have that, I think it’s wrong to strangely say that I’m this kind of guitarist in a definitive way.
-At one point, did you have that kind of thing?
Die: That’s not something I should decide, but I did have a time period where I was deeply involved. I should be doing this. Even with recording or song making, if it were me, it would be this phrase. There was a period where I had that kind of a mindset.
-Ah, you were tied up with Die’s image that the people around you withheld.
Die: Yes, yes, that’s correct. There was a time like that. Now, there’s nothing of that sort.
-Specifically, what do you think was the turning point for the change?
Die: It’s not like how and where it changed. I guess it was during the recording of “UROBOROS”. So it’s when we entered 2008. But it must have been a natural flow. Doing lives at different places, there probably was something I personally felt. I wanted stimulations towards myself. So I thought of making myself more open and flat. That way, I could change more and more.
-When you were working on songs in “UROBOROS,” did you realize yourself evolving?
Die: I guess I changed as I would make the songs. I would be like, this is not good, this is not good. This was towards my thinking.
-You became dissatisfied with what you came up?
Die: Yep. If it were like this, it should be this kind of approach. There would be me that would think like that. For once, I wanted to lose that. No, no, let’s think more, are there other ways? I would ask myself those things. During the production period of “UROBOROS,” it was that repetition. I think I was able to change tremendously from it.
-You were able to look at one song from various angles?
Die: I have that. Originally, music is a free thing. Then, why am I making assumptions? Without realizing, I think I planted something, which nearly made me lose that freedom.
-As you know more about the know-how, you learn how to take a short-cut. But for a guy that lives under a skintight tension, you couldn’t forgive that.
Die: Right. If I basically do this, the result would turn out like this would be obvious. But, if I saw the result or story, it was no good for me. I wanted unpredictability for everything. Even with a small guitar approach too.
-With the evolving in your thinking, did your partner, Kaoru-kun, notice it?
Die: We don’t really talk about that kind of topic. But I think he noticed it. I mean I didn’t use my right hand.
-You’re talking about tapping right? You were tapping during “Gaika, Chinmoku Ga Nemurukoro,” and I was surprised during the live. Before, did you decide prematurely that you’re a guitarist that shouldn’t use tapping?
Die: I had that. I was resolute on never using it. But I thought I should lose that taboo; it’s all right to be freer.
-By losing your taboo, you were able to shape a phrase that you wouldn’t play before?
Die: Yep, that’s right. And, that kind of stuff was stimulating for me. Tapping stimulated me where it produced soft sounds that can’t be made through picking. I must say you shouldn’t be absolute about your vision as a guitarist.
-The selfish assumption about the likeliness of yourself became your biggest obstacle then?
Die: Maybe. I think I had that where I wasn’t conscious of it.
Songs in “UROBOROS” opened me up more.
-The production for “UROBOROS” must have been hard, but as you would do it more, an unknown element arose from you, so it must have been rather exciting every day, no?
Die: Well, it was actually like that. Really, recording was fun. The songs in that album made me open up myself more; I seemed to be called upon (by the songs). Rather than “UROBOROS” forming from something that arose from me, it was actually “UROBOROS” polishing me. That sensation may be stronger. While I was recording, it may have been too fulfilling (laugh).
-During the six-month of recording period, what is something you remember the most?
Die: That has to be when I would think of guitar arrangement and creating sounds. Even when you create one sound, from the vast image first, with Kaoru-kun, the two of us were being, “Let’s do this more,” and we had trial and error. This time, more than any albums, the two of us were working close. It felt like the two of us were creating the world-view. Really, the two of us were in the studio a lot.
-The situation must be close to the time when you first formed the guitar combo (note: this is close to the word they used, which was コンビ [konbi], but team would probably be the English word), no?
Die: It’s close. Even when you say back in the days, it really feels like the time when we really met. Even before “GAUZE”’s time. You just said combo before, but it really was a combination during the recording of “UROBOROS”. It was fun. If he (Kaoru) was here, I could do something interesting with him. It was like that.
-You also have trust (towards Kaoru).
Die: Yes. But I think of that not only towards Kaoru-kun, but as well as Kyo-kun, Toshiya, and Shinya. This is an issue that comes before music. It’s like an emotional aspect. Since we did it together for such a long time, I could tell if someone’s feeling is missing. Everyone has been doing this band with the same thoughts, and that’s why we’re here now. If even one is missing, we can’t do it.
-Your culmination up to now is “UROBOROS”, and at the same time, you could see new possibilities in this album. You mentioned before on how you shouldn’t create your vision as a guitarist, but do you have any ideals regarding the band in the near future?
Die: You mean how it will be? We haven’t decided that, and I don’t want to decide. I think it’s good as we constantly evolve as we do one show at a time. It should evolve as we do more and more. I think that’s DIR EN GREY.
-Listening to you, I could sense how you seem to have broken your shell.
Die: My feet have landed on the ground (note: 地に足がつく [Ji ni ashi ga tsuku]. This is an expression where it means how one’s action and feeling are solid.), finally. Experiencing various things, my feet have finally landed on the ground, “Okay, it’s from now.” I have that feeling. But I’m not conscientious on how I want to do this for a long time or be able to continue it. I think it’s good if we could continue as a result, but there’s no meaning if we’re void of content. It’s how I could incline my passion for each moment. I guess I like the constant skintight tension.
Translation: Cammie