D'ni Language Lesson 4: Alphabet 3/5
(08/10 21:00:03) Chat.log started...
(08/10 21:00:31) IanWatson: Welcome everyone to the fourth D'ni Language Lesson, and our first here in our new home in the D'ni Linguistic Foundation's Neighbourhood.
(08/10 21:00:58) IanWatson: This is our third lesson on letters.
(08/10 21:01:33) IanWatson: All our past lessons can be found up at http://community.livejournal.com/dni_language .
(08/10 21:02:11) IanWatson: Today we'll be covering the five letters starting with this one I'm standing below; the final letter in the yellow block.
(08/10 21:02:36) IanWatson: Any questions before we begin?
(08/10 21:02:59) IanWatson: Good.
(08/10 21:03:35) IanWatson: This first letter somewhat resembles a parenthesis laying on its side; it corresponds to the D'ni number 10.
) : e : e
(08/10 21:04:02) IanWatson: The sound it makes is the "eh" sound, like "bread" and "fed."
(08/10 21:05:05) IanWatson: It can also be written accented: the accent goes at the apex of the bump. That letter makes the "ay" sound, like "yay" and "brave."
A
(08/10 21:05:41) Stephen C.: i'm going to have to go sorry ian but i can't stay awake
(08/10 21:05:55) IanWatson: No prob, Stephen. You can catch the chatlog later.
(08/10 21:05:56) Shiloh: We'll take notes for you.
(08/10 21:06:02) Stephen C.: thanks
(08/10 21:06:16) Branan: bye, stephen
(08/10 21:06:23) IanWatson: The rest of the letters we'll be covering today all have the same "eh" shape as the base.
(08/10 21:06:28) IanWatson: Phone, brb
(08/10 21:06:52) IanWatson: Okay, back.
(08/10 21:06:59) Stephen C.: ok i added you to my buddies list
(08/10 21:07:27) Stephen C.: bye all
(08/10 21:07:32) IanWatson: The second letter is the first one in this blue section. It has the "eh" base and the "v" stem, corresponding with the D'ni number 11.
! : r : r
(08/10 21:07:34) Stephen C.: and thanks
(08/10 21:07:36) Stephen C. thanks you very much!
(08/10 21:08:03) IanWatson: It makes, roughly, an "r" sound, but it's not the r we get in English.
(08/10 21:08:54) IanWatson: It's a "flipped" r. Most people are familiar with the "rolled" r, like the sound effect you do when you're doing a motorboat or something.
(08/10 21:09:18) IanWatson: The "flipped" r is like that, but with only one "roll." The tongue only hits the roof of your mouth once.
(08/10 21:09:19) Shiloh: *winces* I can never roll my r's.
(08/10 21:10:04) Shiloh raises her hand.
(08/10 21:10:11) IanWatson: It's halfway between the English "r" and the English "L." Many Asiatic languages have this sound.
(08/10 21:10:20) IanWatson: Yes, Shiloh?
(08/10 21:10:41) Shiloh: Are there any audio files we can download with examples of the pronunciations?
(08/10 21:11:02) Dalken Starbyne: Sorry I'm late!
(08/10 21:11:06) DRCLVortmax1: Me too
(08/10 21:11:30) IanWatson: I believe that the DLF has some, at linguist.bahro.com/domahreh/lessons . If I can track one down, I'll put the link right >here< in the chatlog.
(08/10 21:11:33) IanWatson: No problem, guys.
(08/10 21:11:37) Shiloh: Thank you.
(08/10 21:12:09) IanWatson: If you say "uhduh" fast enough, the "d" in the middle there will be pretty close to a flipped r.
(08/10 21:13:08) IanWatson: Asiatic languages use this letter as both the r and l, as I mentioned. This is why it's harder for them to pick them apart when they learn Romance languages.
(08/10 21:13:34) IanWatson: Fortunately for us, D'ni has a more straightforward L sound later on, so it's just this R which is tricky.
(08/10 21:13:59) DRCLVortmax1: So this translates as R into English, and the other one later translates as L?
(08/10 21:14:23) IanWatson: Yes. This letter is always transliterated as R.
(08/10 21:14:33) DRCLVortmax1: Yeah, transliterated. That's it. :)
(08/10 21:14:46) IanWatson: :D
(08/10 21:14:50) IanWatson: Okay, moving along.
(08/10 21:15:27) IanWatson: The third letter here resembles a sort of distorted letter M with one bump on the vertical and one on the horizontal.
(08/10 21:15:46) IanWatson: It's the "eh" base combined with the "t" stem, corresponding to the D'ni number 12.
@ : m : m
(08/10 21:16:12) IanWatson: It sounds like the familiar letter m, like in "muffin" or "manwich."
(08/10 21:17:30) IanWatson: The fourth letter looks very similar to the M... try to think of it as something like a snake crawling to the left.
(08/10 21:17:56) IanWatson: It's a combination of the "eh" base and the "s" stem, corresponding to the D'ni 13.
# : T : T
(08/10 21:18:29) IanWatson: It makes a "th" sound, like in "thistle" or "think."
(08/10 21:19:02) IanWatson: If it helps, think of it as a snake hissing, with a lisp.
(08/10 21:19:16) Branan: I like that
(08/10 21:19:16) Shiloh: *snickers*
(08/10 21:19:32) Shiloh: "Truthhhht in me...."
(08/10 21:19:40) IanWatson: Now the last letter today will be a little tricky....
(08/10 21:20:05) IanWatson: It's a combination of the "eh" base and the "j" stem, corresponding with the D'ni 14.
$ : d : d
(08/10 21:20:21) IanWatson: It's transliterated as "dh."
(08/10 21:21:10) IanWatson: The sound it makes is more of a vocalized th sound, like in "those" and "the."
(08/10 21:21:42) IanWatson: The "th" is more just air passing through your lips, but in this case you're vocalizing it. It's like the letter "v," but your lips are in the wrong place.
(08/10 21:21:48) IanWatson: I hope that makes sense.
(08/10 21:21:57) Shiloh: Sort of how Esher pronounces D'ni?
(08/10 21:22:07) UberThend: Reverberating?
(08/10 21:22:16) Shiloh: With a bit a rattle in the back of the throat?
(08/10 21:22:21) IanWatson: No, Shiloh.
(08/10 21:22:50) IanWatson: If I say "these things," the first th is the D'ni "dh," while the second is "th."
(08/10 21:22:52) DRCLVortmax1: It's the difference between the th in "those" and the th in "zenith"
(08/10 21:23:07) Shiloh: Ahhh!
(08/10 21:23:11) UberThend: wow
(08/10 21:23:11) Shiloh: I see.
(08/10 21:23:30) Branan: my poor brain...
(08/10 21:23:50) Branan: it makes sense, though
(08/10 21:24:11) IanWatson: This is probably one of the more difficult ones to grasp without hearing it, so are there any more questions before we go on?
(08/10 21:24:28) DRCLVortmax1: How did you say it transliterates?
(08/10 21:24:39) IanWatson: It transliterates as "dh."
(08/10 21:24:47) DRCLVortmax1: Ah, okay. Thanks :)
(08/10 21:24:56) IanWatson: To differentiate it from the earlier "th."
(08/10 21:25:06) Shiloh: You're directly relating the letters to our English sounds. Did the D'ni have names for the letters? Like in Greek, it's Alpha, Beta Gamma, ect...
(08/10 21:25:21) IanWatson: If they did, we don't know them yet, Shiloh.
(08/10 21:25:25) Shiloh: Okay.
(08/10 21:25:39) IanWatson: For now the sounds are the best we have.
(08/10 21:25:54) Shiloh: And probably better to focus on anyway. :)
(08/10 21:25:55) IanWatson: Conversely, we know all the names for the numbers, which you'll discover once you go through the chatlogs.
(08/10 21:26:20) IanWatson: Okay.... "dh" can be accented. The accent goes between the top overhang and the bump.
D
(08/10 21:26:38) IanWatson: It's pronounced like the common English letter "d."
(08/10 21:27:16) IanWatson: Like "Dalken," "D'ni," "document," and so on.
(08/10 21:27:44) Dalken Starbyne grins
(08/10 21:28:09) IanWatson: So I believe that's it for this week. Questions?
(08/10 21:28:11) Dalken Starbyne: is that why it's transliterated to "dh"?
(08/10 21:28:24) IanWatson: That's one of the reasons, yeah. Easier to remember.
(08/10 21:29:05) Shiloh: Thanks for the lesson, Ian.
(08/10 21:29:13) IanWatson: No problem. I hope it helped.
(08/10 21:29:35) Dalken Starbyne: Yes, thank you. I'm gonna have to go over the logs of previous lessons...I've been meaning to attend these
(08/10 21:29:46) Whilyam: Hello
(08/10 21:29:48) Shiloh: It did...Actually, seeing the alphabet laid out like that...it makes a hell of a lot more sense than that book did in Revelations.
(08/10 21:29:52) IanWatson: Shorah, Whilyam.
(08/10 21:29:53) Whilyam (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
(08/10 21:30:00) DRCLVortmax1: Yes, I will need to do that too Dalken. And I need to start writing the letters :D
(08/10 21:30:05) Shiloh: And it's a more systematic symbology than English.
(08/10 21:30:12) IanWatson: It should make even more sense in the chatlogs. I try to make good use of visual aids.
(08/10 21:30:13) Dalken Starbyne: Yeah, it's like having an alphabet on a classroom wall...oh wait...
(08/10 21:30:14) DRCLVortmax1: Quick question on writing in D'ni
(08/10 21:30:25) IanWatson: Sure.
(08/10 21:30:26) DRCLVortmax1: Is there a certain stroke order, or way to write the letters and numbers?
(08/10 21:30:41) Shiloh: Any suggestions on how to practice drawing. Ballpoint pens don't exactly do well.
(08/10 21:30:51) UberThend: Yes, thanks, sorry I couldn't make it sooner
(08/10 21:31:05) UberThend: It's great and interesting stuff
(08/10 21:31:11) IanWatson: Yes, there is... going from left to right, obviously. I recommend you get yourself a calligraphy pen, although those calligraphy markers will do just as well.
(08/10 21:31:23) Whilyam: Hey, Ian? Might I, one of these times, be allowed to come in and give people some simple D'ni phrases like "How are you?" etc?
(08/10 21:31:43) Shiloh: Okay, that's all for me. See you all later.
(08/10 21:31:43) IanWatson: (Chatlogs, once again, can be found at http://community.livejournal.com/dni_language)
(08/10 21:31:45) Shiloh: Shorah.
(08/10 21:31:48) IanWatson: Later, Shiloh.
(08/10 21:31:54) Whilyam: Bye Shiloh
(08/10 21:32:02) Dalken Starbyne: Bye Shiloh
(08/10 21:32:04) UberThend: Calligraphy pens Shiloh
(08/10 21:32:27) IanWatson: Of course, Whilyam. Two more lessons and I'll have covered the whole alphabet, but I imagine you'll have interested parties before then.
(08/10 21:32:44) Whilyam: Nah. No interested parties anywhere :P
(08/10 21:32:50) Branan nods fervently
(08/10 21:33:07) Dalken Starbyne chuckles
(08/10 21:33:21) Whilyam: Quiet a few know more than I do, but they're either busy or don't hang around much.
(08/10 21:33:28) Whilyam: a LOT more :P
(08/10 21:33:29) IanWatson: As to the writing order... Most of the letters have an obvious starting point on the left-hand side. Most letters will be a single stroke. This week's "eh," "m" and "th," for example.
(08/10 21:33:57) Whilyam: Is the lesson over?
(08/10 21:33:59) IanWatson: Letters like the "dh" here, you just write the cap first, and then write the base as a new stroke.
(08/10 21:34:15) IanWatson: Yeah, you came in just as I finished this week's letters, Whilyam. :D
(08/10 21:34:16) DRCLVortmax1: Okay, so basically top to bottom, left to right
(08/10 21:34:21) IanWatson: I'm just doing the wrapup.
(08/10 21:34:21) Whilyam: Okay, figured.
(08/10 21:34:23) DRCLVortmax1: Is it the same for numbers?
(08/10 21:34:56) IanWatson: Domahreh's lessons have a very detailed series of diagrams for proper writing of the letters.
(08/10 21:35:22) UberThend: cool. that helps
(08/10 21:35:25) IanWatson: The numbers... I don't think it matters, as long as it looks okay. It's much more important with the letters due to how cursive they are, but the numbers are boxes and straight lines, mostly.
(08/10 21:35:47) Whilyam: The numbers are easy and cool.
(08/10 21:36:13) IanWatson: That's one of the reasons I taught the numbers first and tied the letters into them. :D
(08/10 21:36:18) UberThend: So, do you also suggest Calligraphy Tools for the numbers, or not?
(08/10 21:36:19) Whilyam: I like figuring out stuff like what bell it is on the clock.
(08/10 21:36:47) Whilyam: I have a few old calligraphy pens I use, Vort.
(08/10 21:36:52) Dalken Starbyne: I can remember zero, five, and twelve right now. Heh
(08/10 21:36:59) DRCLVortmax1: I actually have one I can use, that got left at work :D
(08/10 21:37:05) IanWatson: I wouldn't bother if you're just doing numbers, Thend. But if you're writing numbers in the middle of writing words, it doesn't make sense to switch pens. ;)
(08/10 21:37:15) UberThend nods his head
(08/10 21:37:25) Whilyam: I also just write it "shorthand" just making the basic lines, not the full letter
(08/10 21:37:29) IanWatson: Dalken, the chatlogs cover them in a fair amount of detail.
(08/10 21:37:49) Dalken Starbyne: Cool, thanks. I'll check it out
(08/10 21:38:02) IanWatson: I'm going to stop the chatlog now, but we can continue to discuss stuff.
(08/10 21:38:05) ...Chat.log stopped.
) : 10
e : eh
A : ay ! : 11
r : r@ : 12
m : m# : 13
T : th$ : 14
d : dh
D : d
Domahreh's diagrams on how to write the D'ni letters (and words) can be found here.