OK I didn't have any Nu Who submissions for this week (SO PLEASE SUBMIT SOME!!! =D), so I came up with this based on an opinion I've had for quite a while (via Tumblr
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The tone of season 2 is set with New Earth, in which Rose is called a “chav” and her lower class is repeatedly mentioned by Cassandra. Granted, it’s not Ten saying any of this - but it’s mentioned and is in the viewer’s conscious all the same: that’s how Rose is portrayed in the narrative.
I hated that stuff, like the dinner lady thing where ha ha she has a working-class job. I was like "STFU Rusty why so mean?"
he actively *tries* to make her not feel special later in the episode, when she asks if she’s just “the latest in a long line” and he responds “as opposed to what?”
I don't think he means that in a nasty way, despite his anger. "As opposed to what" just (to me, ymmv, etc) means he's annoyed at the implication that the others aren't as special to him.
I agree with your last point. I never found 'as opposed to what?' nasty. I think Ten was justified to feel a bit exasperated that Rose would think she was his first love, when he was over 900 years old. After all, Rose had had at least two previous boyfriends, and she was only 19.
In the Army of Steel, the Doctor also choose the humble position of server--which is very different from compelling Martha to become His servant, therefore leaving his Companion crippled by the social mores. Rose is a server, but so is he, so she is percieved as his equal.
Leaves her in danger, even - and this is an important point - in order to PARTY with an aristocrat.
He left Rose and Mickey while he went to investigate what was going on with Reinette. She was in danger, and rescuing humans in danger from aliens is what the Doctor does. He expects his Companions to fend for themselves while he does the dangerous stuff. When the Doctor charges into Versailles on his white horse and leaves Rose & Mickey--this time giving the TARDIS no instructions whatsoever-- he did so to save Reinette’s life, as well as the lives of the other people in the room
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He was pretty decent to Donna for teh most part ("womanly wiles" notwithstanding, urgh let's pretend that never happened yeah?) Martha he's hot and cold with and ditto Rose. He only puts you on a pedestal when you're gone, which is very different from Nine so I can see why some people go off Doctor/Rose with teh change of Doctor.
ETA: It's v nice to see that Eleven has guilt about them all. The boy learned!
I certainly agree with this. He often reminds me of a child with a toy with his behaviour. When Rose and Martha were around he was very hot and cold, often in relation to how much danger they were/had been in.
Basically, when it looks like his favourite toy is going to get taken away he panics and wants it. When he has it, he's less interested.
I don't think that the Doctor treated Martha all that badly. Yes, he certainly didn't act perfectly, but he has my sympathy. Yeah, kissing her at the beginning wasn't his most brilliant of ideas, but I don't think it had occurred to him to ask her along yet at that point. Once she was in the TARDIS, though, he never did anything to suggest that he wanted to be in a relationship with her, and was broadcasting the 'not emotionally available' signal quite loud and clear. He doesn't get the gold star of 'actually having an honest and unemotional adult discussion with her about it
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Why not Rose? It was a happy relationship during the course of it, but it was never a healthy one. I adore the Ten/Rose relationship, but for pretty much exactly the same reason as I adore Buffy/Angel. Not because it's OMG TRU LUV romantic, but because it manages to have a dynamic which is both incredibly sweet and incredibly screwed up all at once. In both cases, you've got truckloads of codependency, a severely traumatised person deciding that having someone to cuddle is actually better than dealing with his issues, and two people who manage to deify the other without actually respecting them. He's someone with hundreds of years of life experience and a ridiculous amount of trauma and baggage who is well aware of the fact that he shouldn't be with a teenage girl, but does it anyway. She falls for him because how could she not? The Buffy/Angel relationship is explicitly physical and romantic, whereas the Doctor and Rose stay on the cusp between deep friendship and romance,but I do think they're quite similar in a lot of ways. One of
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Re: Part OneviomisehuntNovember 20 2012, 01:29:27 UTC
I don't believe when people say that the Doctor treated Martha shabbily that they mean that his failure fall in love with her, but his hot and cold behavior. I disagree about the Kiss being the only mixed signal, as from the moment he takes off his tie in the street the Doctor lured Martha onto the TARDIS with every sexy trick he could think of, right down to that sultry lean at the end of the alley and "want to see my space ship? Then the door shut and he made a complete about face, so he doesn't get my sympathy-The Doctor is a manipulative cad and always has been-he just realized that Martha wasn’t intimidated by his 'back off' attitude. He can dish it out, but women are supposed to read his mind and behave like good girls. The heck with that. Had he told her the truth-rather than Rose was fine and happy-- then maybe Martha wouldn’t have reacted as any other woman who gets mixed signals from an attractive man who asks her out. And I don't think Martha came aboard the TARDIS with the intention of falling in love with the
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Yeah, kissing her at the beginning wasn't his most brilliant of ideas, but I don't think it had occurred to him to ask her along yet at that point. Of course it occured to him, don't you remember the scarf? And a hospital, where he gave her a chance to see he has two hearts? It was all on purpose. And about the kiss - yeah, it wasn't probably the best idea, he could, idk, kiss her on the hand? But I don't think he actually knew what effect it would have. Martha fell in love with him instantly and either he knew and reject her all the time or he denied it the whole time. He wasn't ready for new actual relationship and I understand that. It was Martha who doesn't understand - well, maybe because Doctor didn't give a minute to explain Martha why Rose was so important to him. I'm not surprised Martha have a crush on him - tbh, who could resist this beauty (Donna was exepction).
With Last of the Time Lords, telling her to go walk the Earth for him wasn't great, but he gets some blame taken away for being quite severely injured at the
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Ooh, that part always bugs me! I still get angry when I watch the beginning of Utopia where the Doctor sees Jack running towards the TARDIS, grins, and takes off.
One thing I didn't like, was how 10 always seemed to think he was the most wonderful person in the room, and expected everyone else to believe it as well
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I think that was part of his problem with Martha, not just her force-written crush, but that she could actually see he wasn't that wonderful. And I don't think he was comfortable with that.Martha doesn't get her own story with the Doctor, she becomes us, the outsider, the viewer thrown into the continuing story of Ten and Rose
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She could simply be his friend. In our culture of "romance" being the highest form of love, people often forget how incredibly important friends are
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I think part of that difference comes from how so many of the New Who Companions seem to think they can graft themselves onto him, instead of accepting that they are only there for the ride, and there for only a short while in his life. It's a vacation, a trip of a lifetime, but it is not a life. Not their life anyway.
There's too much of this "I'm going to travel with that man forever" or this idea that it even can go on forever. To the point where they start defining themselves by their "Doctor life" instead of their own.
I'm not explaining this well. I guess what I mean, is that I always before saw the Companion's journey with the Doctor to be a sort of "Coming of Age" journey. The time in a young person's life where they go out on their own and stretch their wings, find out who they are, their strengths and weaknesses , their life aims and goals, the time when they break the ties of who they are to other people and simply become fully themselves
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I hated that stuff, like the dinner lady thing where ha ha she has a working-class job. I was like "STFU Rusty why so mean?"
he actively *tries* to make her not feel special later in the episode, when she asks if she’s just “the latest in a long line” and he responds “as opposed to what?”
I don't think he means that in a nasty way, despite his anger. "As opposed to what" just (to me, ymmv, etc) means he's annoyed at the implication that the others aren't as special to him.
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Leaves her in danger, even - and this is an important point - in order to PARTY with an aristocrat.
He left Rose and Mickey while he went to investigate what was going on with Reinette. She was in danger, and rescuing humans in danger from aliens is what the Doctor does. He expects his Companions to fend for themselves while he does the dangerous stuff. When the Doctor charges into Versailles on his white horse and leaves Rose & Mickey--this time giving the TARDIS no instructions whatsoever-- he did so to save Reinette’s life, as well as the lives of the other people in the room ( ... )
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ETA: It's v nice to see that Eleven has guilt about them all. The boy learned!
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I certainly agree with this. He often reminds me of a child with a toy with his behaviour. When Rose and Martha were around he was very hot and cold, often in relation to how much danger they were/had been in.
Basically, when it looks like his favourite toy is going to get taken away he panics and wants it. When he has it, he's less interested.
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Of course it occured to him, don't you remember the scarf? And a hospital, where he gave her a chance to see he has two hearts? It was all on purpose.
And about the kiss - yeah, it wasn't probably the best idea, he could, idk, kiss her on the hand? But I don't think he actually knew what effect it would have. Martha fell in love with him instantly and either he knew and reject her all the time or he denied it the whole time. He wasn't ready for new actual relationship and I understand that. It was Martha who doesn't understand - well, maybe because Doctor didn't give a minute to explain Martha why Rose was so important to him. I'm not surprised Martha have a crush on him - tbh, who could resist this beauty (Donna was exepction).
With Last of the Time Lords, telling her to go walk the Earth for him wasn't great, but he gets some blame taken away for being quite severely injured at the ( ... )
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"You're just wrong...." Really?
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I have plenty of other thoughts, but sheesh, he didn't even try with Jack.
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Donna had an awful fate, but at least the Doctor showed that he cared.
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There's too much of this "I'm going to travel with that man forever" or this idea that it even can go on forever. To the point where they start defining themselves by their "Doctor life" instead of their own.
I'm not explaining this well. I guess what I mean, is that I always before saw the Companion's journey with the Doctor to be a sort of "Coming of Age" journey. The time in a young person's life where they go out on their own and stretch their wings, find out who they are, their strengths and weaknesses , their life aims and goals, the time when they break the ties of who they are to other people and simply become fully themselves ( ... )
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