Not a huge fan of River I admit, but everything we've ever seen about her (admittedly patchy) character doesn't exactly scream the 'stay home and be a mother' type. More the 'wants to run off and see everything type'.
But then, Moffat's assumption that all women want to be married and have kids means it was pretty much inevitable
Assuming that CAL can create more environments than the few we see onscreen -- which is certainly implied in the episode -- I don't see why not, other than the usual issues with immortal people becoming bored as time passes. I'm always bothered by the assumption that an adventurer like River wouldn't want children: many (if not most) women choose to have children, regardless of their careers or situations, and regardless of whether they "seem like the type" to have kids. (And I say this as a woman who neither has nor wants children.)
I rather think of River in the library as Moffat taking a real woman and turning her into Wendy or Moira Darling. There is no reason for an adventure loving woman not to want children to share the adventure with, but that is not exactly the image we saw--that is, a dynamic, loving mother sharing her adventures with her children. It rather looked like Wendy putting her adventures like books on the shelve to share as bedtime stories for. her children
It rather looked like Wendy putting her adventures like books on the shelve to share as bedtime stories for. her children
I guess I don't see River sharing her adventures as bedtime stories as mutually exclusive with her giving up a life of adventure in favor of doing nothing but child care, particularly if CAL can literally present scenarios from every book in the universe.
I guess I don't see River sharing her adventures as bedtime stories as mutually exclusive with her giving up a life of adventure in favor of doing nothing but child care, particularly if CAL can literally present scenarios from every book in the universe.
As I would imagine River as a parent or foster parent, adventure IS part and partial of the child care, the universe is her schoolroom , and the children just at home in berth on a sailing ship as they are snug in their beds in Donna's old house. However, my point it was that rather hard to imagine River and her charges just concluding an adventure, with River dressed in that Nature Goddess outfit, which is why I addressed "the image " of her life in the Library.
Yes and no? On the one hand, I appreciate that River the Sort-Of Time Lord gets an afterlife in a Sort-Of Matrix, and it has to be remembered that the big, pretty, institutional building isn't all there is to it--she's got every book in the universe to keep her company and, presumably, some pretty advanced virtual reality to work with. And also that she's got her team with her, and that CAL, who's shown in the bedroom getting tucked in by River at the end, is a real child. I'm guessing that River, who grew up isolated and manipulated as well, would have a very personal stake in being involved in Charlotte Lux's life.
On the other hand, that virtual reality had been serving as an incredibly potent source of psychological horror throughout the episode, and I don't think "it's okay, this is a nice place now" is really adequate clean-up on that front, especially since the creepy unreal children are still there. What's the deal with them, anyway? Are they completely made up by the computer? In that case why keep them? Or are they
( ... )
My theory is that the twins are children that Donna and Lee _could have had_ if they'd met in real life. The computer had complete physical scans of both of them, it wouldn't be that hard to combine their virtual DNA and virtually grow it up to age 7. If that's the case, it's possible that, even though they never had any physical existence outside the machine, they're still "real" people in some sense, not just puppets that CAL is controlling, and don't deserve to be deleted. CAL seems to think so, anyway, and she should know. And now that she has more computing resources to spend on them, their life shouldn't be so creepily choppy and unstable anymore. Thoughts?
The impression I got was that the computer was trying to integrate all 4022 people into its simulated reality, giving them sham lives and families if need be to keep them from asking too many questions, and copying the same two children into all those families to save memory. And all the crowd scenes too. I don't remember whether there were other "parents" at the playground, but surely if everyone had had their own individualized fake children it wouldn't have been the exact same two faces repeated over and over.
Plus, if everyone else had been integrated and some of them given children based on their and their partner's DNA, surely those two kids wouldn't be the only ones left over afterwards?
No, I think she'd be miserable. What's a shame is that her actual death (sacrificing herself to save the Doctor when he doesn't even know her, and she's fairly sure that she's never going to see him again) works very well with her character and her general story. It means that she doesn't have to live without him,and also nicely mirrors her sacrificing herself for him when she first met him. Then the Doctor idealistically 'saves' her, condemning her to a life with neither Doctor nor adventure in it, blundering in and ruining it because he doesn't know the whole story
( ... )
IDK, I agree that (a) it is perfectly in character for Ten to be high-handed and short-sighted about yanking people back from death, (b) and the ending is meant to be ambiguous and unsettling (and even more so in hindsight), and (c) I'm not sure Moffat meant it to be quite as unsettling as it is... but I don't think it's unambiguously horrible from River's end, either. Disappointingly quiet after a high-octane life, sure, but not as much so as actually being dead. She's got all the books in the universe feeding a very powerful reality simulator; I'm sure she can craft adventures in any time period/fictional reality she wants to for herself and her friends. Or potter about doing mad science. Or hack the Library distress beacon to leave troll messages for the Doctor throughout spacetime. The worst part is probably that the Doctor isn't there, not that she'd be bored.
The ending is ambiguous and unsettling as shit though. For the entire episode. I mean, the image of Ten opening the TARDIS doors by snapping his fingers was made
( ... )
He sort of idealises domesticity without quite wanting it for himself. So he just assumes that everyone else will be happy tied to one place and time, or with their families (the latter of course being an option that he doesn't have anymore). He's totally got an "I Know Best" attitude in a lot of places. In this case he doesn't want River to be dead, so she isn't entirely dead and then he can wander off feeling good abuot it all.
I think River is making strenuous attempts to get out of there. She won't let lack of a physical body stop her getting back to the Doctor. In fact I suspect sheis doing it right now and has already got some help.... from a certain CALara..... or do I mean Clara....
I agree. I'm quite sure that CAL herself is sick of the Not-Matrix by now as well, and that she, River and the newly bright version of Miss Evangelistia (who didn't become dumb again when her face got fixed) are all trying their damnedest to interact with the real world, reconstruct real bodies there, and then get the hell out. I'm even sure that River doesn't think of it as a place to remain, but as a way station, and she's definitely planning on getting back to life, archaeology and the Doctor.
In my headcanon, they all eventually do this and go their separate ways. So currently, River is off having marvelous adventures on her own in a duplicate body--one that has its Time Lord lives back--and, now that she's back in a timeline that more or less approximates the Doctor's instead of flowing opposite to his, is planning to meet up with Twelve. Eleven hasn't figured any of this out yet.
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The long version - HELL NO!
Not a huge fan of River I admit, but everything we've ever seen about her (admittedly patchy) character doesn't exactly scream the 'stay home and be a mother' type. More the 'wants to run off and see everything type'.
But then, Moffat's assumption that all women want to be married and have kids means it was pretty much inevitable
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I guess I don't see River sharing her adventures as bedtime stories as mutually exclusive with her giving up a life of adventure in favor of doing nothing but child care, particularly if CAL can literally present scenarios from every book in the universe.
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As I would imagine River as a parent or foster parent, adventure IS part and partial of the child care, the universe is her schoolroom , and the children just at home in berth on a sailing ship as they are snug in their beds in Donna's old house. However, my point it was that rather hard to imagine River and her charges just concluding an adventure, with River dressed in that Nature Goddess outfit, which is why I addressed "the image " of her life in the Library.
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On the other hand, that virtual reality had been serving as an incredibly potent source of psychological horror throughout the episode, and I don't think "it's okay, this is a nice place now" is really adequate clean-up on that front, especially since the creepy unreal children are still there. What's the deal with them, anyway? Are they completely made up by the computer? In that case why keep them? Or are they ( ... )
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Plus, if everyone else had been integrated and some of them given children based on their and their partner's DNA, surely those two kids wouldn't be the only ones left over afterwards?
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The ending is ambiguous and unsettling as shit though. For the entire episode. I mean, the image of Ten opening the TARDIS doors by snapping his fingers was made ( ... )
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In my headcanon, they all eventually do this and go their separate ways. So currently, River is off having marvelous adventures on her own in a duplicate body--one that has its Time Lord lives back--and, now that she's back in a timeline that more or less approximates the Doctor's instead of flowing opposite to his, is planning to meet up with Twelve. Eleven hasn't figured any of this out yet.
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