Nope. And no way in hell. I mean I'm not entirely sure we can leave now that we've f*ed things up so well, but that doesn't make me pro-war. I like to say I support our troops... by bringing them home alive :-)
Interesting, did I come across that way? I certianly didn't mean to. I also tried not to make the whole war statement thing, this movie isn't really about that I don't think. I mean it has to make some statement as it was during the Gulf War, and it's hard not to make ties to the same desert.... but ya :-)
You didn't come off as particularly pro-war although there was a pro-soldier sentiment. I asked mostly because of the nature of the film itself - it is rather hard to not connect Jarhead to the current conflict. I've not seen it however and I don't plan to; it's not my type of film and such. I suppose I noticed your underlying sentiments because I currently work with so many people who are not only anti-war they are anti-military; the kind of people who don't have telephone service because part of the funds go to the Defense Department and such. The war out here is a major issue and I'm always trying to succintly define how I feel about it and the troops in general so I like to hear how others define their position.
Ah I see what you mean. I guess I can't define myself as anti-military because, well, I don't know, I've just never thought about it really. I think I come off pro-soldier because I have a lot of respect for people who put their lives on the line for others (be it for the right cause or not.... that's a whole other story). My family is full of law-enforcement and veterans so I imagine that is where that is coming from.
I still hold the belief that somewhere inside each of us is a good person trying to get out, we just put ourselves in situations where that gets harder and harder to do.
the thing is, the soldiers are human. there's no way i can disconnect the tragedy that is war, and killing from their humanity. while i think it's wrong to war, these are still men and women in need of the Savior.
I think Tim's problem is the patriotic problem of viewing soldiers as more than human.
I haven't seen Jarhead yet, i don't know if i will. But i didn't watch Training Day and think all cops are evil. I didn't watch bambi and think deers can talk. but i can't watch Saving Private Ryan and think all soldiers are above reproach.
i support our troops' humanity. i support the insurrgents' humanity. i despise war. despising war is supporting humanity.
All the reviews I have read (which admittedly are written by Boston Brahmins and such) have argued that the point of the movie (and the tragedy of it) is that our military psychologically prepares these young men and women for a way of life that is unacceptable anywhere else and then does nothing to help them cope with returning to "normal" life. It is seen out here (Boston, Mass) as an exploration of how we prepare soldiers to live in the horror of war and nothing else. The Military used to provide young men and women with a career, a path, and identity but increasingly they are being characterized as an institution that just allows people to languish pathless - this movie, according to the reviews in my area, pushes that interpretation.
The military does intice people into service with offers of college money, life skills, a career, etc; and then once these people (speaking generally here) get out they are as you stated "pathless". The reason for this pathlessness isn't an evil scheme that the government planned. Think about how many jobs that military members have really do not relate to "the real world". What job is a sniper or a grunt transition to upon separation
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I'm not surprised at your response. And I don't want to give anyone the impression that I dislike the military any less after seeing the movie, because I don't. I was angry at the film maker for being so one sided. Yes I'm sure Marines freaked out and such. But what of all those who maintained their heads and kept a quiet calm? What about all the Iraquis that we DIDN'T kill because we did the humane thing and allowed them to surrender?
Good point. But as the movie was from a book I think he had to pick and choose what he was going to use to make it a "film." And there were a chunk of characters that did keep their calm... but that wouldn't make a good movie now would it ;-)
i don't think every Marine is an idiot, but how many of them are? from what Brian says, it seems like most of them are crazy people. he said most of them want to kill iraqis not because they are Muslim, Arab, or even because they're bad men, but because they have sex with other men.
Em you are right about the humanity of the movie. I know when I was in the desert I was most worried about was happening at home. And like Swafford I too received a letter or phone call from the now ex-fiance saying there was a guy who was a great listener. It was tough emotionally there. But I did draw very close to God then. We worked 3 days on 1 day off. Thank God for that one day, but if I had 2 days I know I would have gone crazy. There wasn't much to do.
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Interesting, did I come across that way? I certianly didn't mean to. I also tried not to make the whole war statement thing, this movie isn't really about that I don't think. I mean it has to make some statement as it was during the Gulf War, and it's hard not to make ties to the same desert.... but ya :-)
Have you seen it?
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I still hold the belief that somewhere inside each of us is a good person trying to get out, we just put ourselves in situations where that gets harder and harder to do.
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I think Tim's problem is the patriotic problem of viewing soldiers as more than human.
I haven't seen Jarhead yet, i don't know if i will. But i didn't watch Training Day and think all cops are evil. I didn't watch bambi and think deers can talk. but i can't watch Saving Private Ryan and think all soldiers are above reproach.
i support our troops' humanity. i support the insurrgents' humanity. i despise war. despising war is supporting humanity.
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I can't think anymore right now. I'm hungry.
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Go eat.
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