(Untitled)

[drowninghazel]

Normally i avoid reading comments on you tube but came across this comment linked to a Cold War documentary. (my new favorite topic)

I come from Poland and now live in Germany. It amazes me how much support socialism has despite the awful performance of its ideals in my home country and elsewhere. The experiment with it ended in poverty, cruelty

Comments

[amatol]

well I think they are forgetting that socialism is possible in a democratic capitalist society (see France, Uk to some degree, & probably others) and can do quite well. It's communism...or well any really corrupt government that screws things up. Eastern Europe during the USSR and cold war was not socialist but communist.

[drowninghazel]

The communist deployed a method of socialism.

The two however are different and i wasn't implying that they were the same.
(there are no western european countries with Marxist-Leninist ideology)

The point i read into the comment is that it's easy to romanticize one form over the other. With capitalism and Socialism...there's allways a trade off.

(see France, Uk to some degree, & probably others)

France lives in two parallel worlds, one is capitalist and the other socialist...but i think Portugal is the only country that constitution make references to socialism

[thekaiser]

Unbridled capitalism has likewise ended in poverty, cruelty and disaster (in Poland no less, see the fall of the Solidarity Party after implementing strict free-market fundamentalist principles). It seems clear to me that the moral of the story is that something like socialism wherein the power of the people, embodied in a responsive accountable government, is exerted to mitigate the sins and shortcomings of the power of business (i.e. market volatility/externalities) would seem to be the way to go.

[drowninghazel]

There is plenty of examples where Capitalism has failed any many eastern European countries but i wouldn't compare it to Poland under Communism.

One could question the devise in which swift change in philosophy/policy was implemented and the failures to follow.

the moral of the story to me is that neither system (in it's extreme) can really survive in a moral/modern world.

On a side note - Feeling that i am slipping more and more into being a monarchist...
I don't believe in the power of the people. :D

[drowninghazel]

Side note:
Have you ever read or seen "Fall of eagles"....
Interesting series covering the three major houses of europe during the "Empire Building" days of 1840-1918..

[mama_phooey]

The US has the 4th worst wealth to poverty spread in the world.
From a bottom up view how is there a difference between Cap to Soc? Wealth to the connected and lucky, poverty to the average person.
I understand both sides have a very different "talk", but we know how you feel about "all talk and no action". ;)

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/national/20081022_Rich_poor_gap_widens_in_U_S_.html

[drowninghazel]

"From a bottom up view how is there a difference between Cap to Soc"

That's an interesting point.
I think some WEC (Western European Countries) have shown how the two can interact...But the key there is equality...something the US (generally focusing on the concept of Freedom) has always struggled with and is not unheard of in the UK and elsewhere.

The article you posted source is here:
http://www.oecd.org/document/25/0,3343,en_2649_201185_41530009_1_1_1_1,00.html

[mama_phooey]

I think there is a more flexible view of life in general in Western Europe than there is in the US. We tend to get really rigid and "black & white" pretty quickly.
I wouldn't want to live under a soviet style system. But I also think in the US we have replaced the Old Catholic church cardinals with Wall Street financial analysts. I think the real power is out of the hands of the people again, but we have replaced the royals backed by the church’s threats of Hell with the Forbes 100 backed by Wall Street threats of sagging profits.
I think, in truth, we are stumbling around trying to figure out how "the people" really govern themselves and how we are really going to *not* have a king. (Other than you, of course)

[drowninghazel]

I'm not seeking a monarchy but i will not refuse the offer if one is made.