lol thanks for putting this up. I spent like 4 hours total busing from one side of town to the other today and then when I came home I zonked out. OOP
( ... )
Yeah, Rose's reactions in this episode are just so perfect and without them nothing makes sense. When I skipped straight from PotW to New Earth I was like "who the fuck is this new guy?" because without seeing TCI it was just jarring.
And yeah, I'm with you on number 4. Both sides kinda suck (although I appreciate Harriet a lot in TSE when she stands by her decision because that takes a lot of guts). And it does fit in perfectly with Ten's arc and gives a nice little hint about "the sort of man" he is.
Oh and speaking of the CIN thing, which I adore, the thing that strikes me now when I rewatch both it and TCi is how much of Ten's arc is set up straight away. Donna probably sums it up best with "sometimes you need someone to stop you", but that gets kickstarted even from the CIN thing, where he says "I can't stop myself" and it comes up again in TCI, with "I don't know when to stop!" Eeeexcellent.
Yes I love this. And I didn't really notice it until this time around- I actually only watched the Waters of Mars and the End of Time for the first time recently so this really stuck out to me. These long arcs with enduring consequences (like Bad Wolf) are what I crave and this was done well.
It took a few rewatches before it stuck out to me, too, and I was so pleased and impressed when it did. This first episode + the CIN thing really do lay all the groundwork for the next 3.5 years for the Doctor.
1. This is first regeneration of the New Who Era. How do you think it was handled? Was this a good transition from one Doctor to the next? There is a fair amount of meta commentary by the characters about the change. Did that help the transition or did it pull you out of the story? I think that the show made a good choice by having Rose have trouble adjusting to the new Doctor too. The show was acknowledging the feelings of the people watching and how they might not see David Tennant as "The Doctor", but by addressing that and having Rose as the audience proxy, then Ten was given a chance to prove himself. He won the audience over as he won Rose over. There's also the bit where Harriet Jones says "but he's not my Doctor" or something to that effect which I think was a pretty direct reference to the way that fandom sees specific Doctors as "my Doctor".
2. How does this episode set up Rose's story for the rest of series 2? How does this episode fit into her arc from series 1?I think that series 1 is all about Rose seeing the universe
( ... )
The thing about Saxon is on point. I've heard it said that RTD is a lot better about making sure the Doctor has consequences for his actions and I think this is a good example of this.
Also about the Doctor being more open to family/domestics- agreed. This time it struck me when they had this big group hug starting with the Doctor going straight for a hug with Jackie! Aww :') and Jackie falling asleep by his bedside after nursing him to health and calling him sweetheart and all that. It's just different. I couldn't imagine much of that happening with either Nine or Eleven.
YES GOOD. I like that you used the word "independent" to describe Rose's arc in series 2. I've seen Rose get a lot of criticism for being "clingy", but uh. Her series 2 arc is like the opposite of that. This is Rose trying to be a hero without the Doctor and she's flailing. She doesn't know what she's doing.
But over the course of series 2 she becomes more capable and able to deal with these things on her own. She goes off into the Cyberfactory on her own. She investigates Magpie on her own. She motivates people on the space base in The Satan Pit on her own. She figures out how to save the world in "Fear Her" on her own.
That's not to say that she isn't tied to the Doctor. She DEFINITELY is. She wants to be with him. But I think that a lot of her series 2 arc is about learning how to be ok and how to help people even if he's not there.
Ooh my husband and I debate about Harriet Jones and the Doctor in this ep. He thinks she was wrong and I think the Doctor was wrong. I mean- I don't believe that she was right in blowing up the whole ship, no, but I do get that she has an earth to defend and she's totally right that the Doctor isn't there all the time to keep them safe. So I am sort of on her side there. And also the Doctor's 'tired' comment rubbed be in the wrong way. It strikes me as sexist and insulting. There are things that she did wrong but looking tired is not really one of them and is totally irrelevant and the Doctor is definitely using prejudice/sexism to get his desired result here
( ... )
Also my first regeneration was really just watching 5x01 where the Doctor again isn't sure what he likes/who he is etc. It was handled totally differently and I think I like this one better as far as getting us used to the regeneration idea, although Eleven is charming in his own way. I watched season 5 and then went back to one so this was technically my first time switching from one Doctor to the next and it was kind of horrifying. I miss Nine, still. The other characters' commentary helped I think. I mean- these are legit questions. If they weren't asking them I probably would've been pulled out of the moment more in a "why isn't this bothering anyone else?" sort of way.
The "don't you think she looks tired" thing is actually a reference to Margaret Thatcher (here's a paper from 1983). I think towards the end of her time in office there was more and more about her being "tired" and it's been felt that this helped her lose her popularity (amongst other things). It's quite a clever reference in a way, because it's sort of a double dick move for Ten: get her out of office and reference Maggie Thatcher, who everyone hates, especially Doctor Who.
I think sexism plays/played into it IRL as well as in-universe. A male politician would get snarky comments for looking overly tired, but a woman will find the accusation harder to shake off.
Comments 13
Reply
And yeah, I'm with you on number 4. Both sides kinda suck (although I appreciate Harriet a lot in TSE when she stands by her decision because that takes a lot of guts). And it does fit in perfectly with Ten's arc and gives a nice little hint about "the sort of man" he is.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
I think that the show made a good choice by having Rose have trouble adjusting to the new Doctor too. The show was acknowledging the feelings of the people watching and how they might not see David Tennant as "The Doctor", but by addressing that and having Rose as the audience proxy, then Ten was given a chance to prove himself. He won the audience over as he won Rose over. There's also the bit where Harriet Jones says "but he's not my Doctor" or something to that effect which I think was a pretty direct reference to the way that fandom sees specific Doctors as "my Doctor".
2. How does this episode set up Rose's story for the rest of series 2? How does this episode fit into her arc from series 1?I think that series 1 is all about Rose seeing the universe ( ... )
Reply
The thing about Saxon is on point. I've heard it said that RTD is a lot better about making sure the Doctor has consequences for his actions and I think this is a good example of this.
Also about the Doctor being more open to family/domestics- agreed. This time it struck me when they had this big group hug starting with the Doctor going straight for a hug with Jackie! Aww :') and Jackie falling asleep by his bedside after nursing him to health and calling him sweetheart and all that. It's just different. I couldn't imagine much of that happening with either Nine or Eleven.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
But over the course of series 2 she becomes more capable and able to deal with these things on her own. She goes off into the Cyberfactory on her own. She investigates Magpie on her own. She motivates people on the space base in The Satan Pit on her own. She figures out how to save the world in "Fear Her" on her own.
That's not to say that she isn't tied to the Doctor. She DEFINITELY is. She wants to be with him. But I think that a lot of her series 2 arc is about learning how to be ok and how to help people even if he's not there.
Reply
Reply
Reply
I think sexism plays/played into it IRL as well as in-universe. A male politician would get snarky comments for looking overly tired, but a woman will find the accusation harder to shake off.
Reply
Leave a comment