The Dark Mountain Manifesto

[eldan]

Prompted by a couple of friends' interest, I recently read the Dark Mountain Manifesto. It's long but worth a read, because it's a beautifully written expression of some important ideas. In spite of this, it didn't quite sit right with me.

Comments

[boobirdsfly]

Wow , this is really cool. I haven't had time to read the whole thing in detail yet but it sounds like they have been really really inspired by Derrick Jensen.
Derrick Jensen in his book Endgame talks about how our unwillingness to give up our comfort is a problem and how being honest with that is important to actually be able to get to a place of acceptance that the collapse of civilization is necessary for the earth and its inhabitants to survive.
That's what I like about Derrick Jensen: though he is absolutely certain that it has to end, he does talk and goes deeply into the deep philosophical conflicts that the idea creates in us.
Thanks for posting this, I will go back to it later and read it in depth!
Weirdly enough, just 2 days ago, in my morning pages I wrote about stories and how it's our way back. I'll post that essay soon...

[eldan]

I noticed Derrick Jensen on their blogroll, which seems to be meant as much as a list of influences as of daily reading. Personally, I see him much like I see this group: I love his writing and I think he discusses ideas worth making mentionable, but he's far more convinced than me that the whole enterprise is doomed.

ditto

[ext_126035]

I don't have much to add other than to say you're right on in your first criticism.

As far as inevitability, maybe it is okay for them to think it is inevitable b/c it motivates them to do what they are doing.

Um, okay, I thought of something to make this a little more interesting: Have you read "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" by Kingsolver? It is a book about eating local. Some interesting facts in the book: for every 1 calorie of food we eat, we have used 6 calories of fuel producing it (transportation, fertilizers, pest/herbicides). Maybe we should GM humans to digest oil? That would be more efficient then growing food!

I think one of the easiest ways to point out to people that our current way of life is the above: We produce food in a non-renewable way. (We need to eat food to stay alive.) Therefore, our LIFE (or our descendent's) is non-sustainable.

There are probably other ways in which our "way of life" is also non-sustainable. We'll have to work on those as well.

Re: ditto

[eldan]

Animal, Vegetable, Miracle is in my to-read queue. Actually it's on hold because I lent to a friend and promptly forgot which friend, but you get the idea. That said, as far as I can tell food miles are less of a big deal than the environmental community makes them out to be, and what we eat is a much bigger deal.

I struggle with the inevitability of collapse, because whether or not you believe in it does alter what courses of action are worth taking. One of the reasons I dropped out of academia altogether, rather than picking a different course when my PhD imploded, was a sense that the things I work on now are more urgent than the ones I was working on then. That sense was largely driven by fear, but also by the hope that catastrophe can still be averted. If I'm wrong about that, then the majority of the classes I put on for work are a waste of time, and I'd better hurry along to figuring out Plan Z.

Re: ditto

[ext_126035]

I agree that what you are working on now is much more important than most academic routes! I'd think more people would do it if they thought they could make a living. :)
... that is before society collapses and no-one gets paid.

Re: ditto

[ext_126035]

"That said, as far as I can tell food miles are less of a big deal than the environmental community makes them out to be, and what we eat is a much bigger deal."

I faced a similar dilemma earlier this summer: Organic blueberries from CA or conventional blueberries from MI (more local). I chose organic b/c they were healthier for my body and the farmers and land that grew them.

On the other hand, one could argue that wars are fought and people killed for the oil used to transport them. The CO2 emitted will contribute to global warming, melting ice, flooding land, displacing millions of people, causing more wars, etc.

So depending on how much oil I'm using, choosing far away organic could end up being worse for people NOT myself. (Though eventually it will catch up to me.)

In practice, the "buying locally" tends also to be "buying organic".

i won't eat that

[ext_126035]

another interesting point that Kingsolver makes in "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" is that if one is at a dinner party it is acceptable not to eat certain foods based on one's religion, e.g. pigs. It is not acceptable to not eat certain food based on how far away they were grown, e.g. raspberries out of season, or bananas anytime in WI. This is despite the harm to people and the environment that comes from buying non-local.

Re: i won't eat that

[eldan]

That is a very interesting point, and there are sets of beliefs that fall in between like "I'm a vegetarian", which is entirely socially acceptable in some circles, and not at all in others. What is it about religions that makes most of society happier to accept "I make these choices because of a book/teacher you don't consider significant" but not "I make these choices because of a scientifically-justified belief that they have consequences that matter"?

Re: i won't eat that

[ext_126035]

"What is it about religions that makes most of society happier to accept[...]"

The golden rule? I have my religion and I don't want you to poo-poo it, so I'll respect yours.

But I don't believe that science stuff, so poo-poo!

:)

[dymaxion]

Excuse the very late commenting; I'm not sure how I missed this previously

[eldan]

I agree with all of this, unfortunately. It's unfortunate because it does make me deeply pessimistic about what's going to unfold within my expected lifetime. Two parts in particular hit the nail on the head

[dymaxion]

So, being pessimistic isn't a reason not to do the work you're doing. If nothing else, look at it from the perspective of Overton windows -- every step that we take makes people understand the real world better and forces them to be more honest with themselves about the world around them. Likewise, we need things like dark mountain to drag people far enough over to face real problems.

I think it's really likely that we will face some very bad things in our lifetimes. I mean, I can't imagine that we won't. But, you know, death is just death. Pain is just pain. The end of the world as we know it is just the end of the world as we know it. We'll keep on, or we won't, and either way is ok, in the end.