Anti-fanfic bingo, Line Three

[elfwreck]

Fanfic Bingo, Round Three: Five issues: Raping the characters, MZB, ickyslash, Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, and immorality. Worthy of five essays, or one big one that ties in threads of ethics and legalities and the conundrum of our court system

Comments

[component]

I love Banned From Argo. Sadly my sister gets pissed off whenever i play it in the car on long trips XD

[hakeber]

Yes.

[sunfell]

When did you go to BayCon? I was stationed in the Bay Area in the early 80s, so I went to that con. I also went to Westercon until '85, when I went overseas for the next 8 years.

I haven't been to any cons since. Been too poor, and don't like Creation cons, and our local con has gone into permanent hiatus.

I miss west coast fandom...

And I've heard the Ballad of St. Germain, as well as Banned from Argo. Filk is fun. It's a shame that song is out of public view.

[elfwreck]

My first BayCon was '86. (Which means I misspoke, above; 2005 was the last one I visited, and I can't say I "attended" that one.)

I gophered for several years (starting with '87), and ran the info desk for a couple of years.

[angiepen]

I loved "Banned from Argo." :D I can't sing, but I always enjoyed hanging out at the filksinging (and bardic circle in the SCA) until I got more heavily involved in working and didn't have time anymore. Then it sort of morphed into much less open filking and more formal "concerts" and I wasn't interested anymore.

And we were working BayCon at the same time, which is pretty neat too. [wave]

On the whole copyright thing, I strongly agree. There's a difference between someone claiming to have created your world or your characters and someone creating a derivative work which is clearly marked as derivative and credits the original. The first is intellectual theft, while the second is free advertising. To say nothing of the free expression of one's creative response to an element of the culture around us. [sigh]

Angie

[astridv]

The name does ring a bell; is Yarbro by any chance aka Robin Hobb, the author who wrote that long anti-fanfic rant (that boiled down to "My characters aren't gay, dammit")?

We need our laws to acknowledge the importance of small arts, shared among friends with a few bucks exchanged to cover the cost of production and sharing, as important to our culture. We need our laws to not be slanted in favor of the highest bidder. We need our laws to liberate creativity, not stifle it-to acknowledge it can't be invoked or controlled by corporate decree.

Oh god, yes, WORD.

[cofax7]

is Yarbro by any chance aka Robin Hobb

Oh, no. Robin Hobb is actually Megan Lindholm, and published under her real name for many years before being forced to change because of the way the market works. CQY is... herself, and has been publishing under that name for many years. Their work is very different.

I'm considering whether this song could have been shared as a song about a historic person with an unnaturally long life, rather than a song about a vampire... Hmm.

[elfwreck]

I can't remember if the song mentions vampirism. It does mention immortality--but St. Germain's immortality is a matter of historical legend; Yarbro didn't invent that.

[catalenamara]

>>>I'm considering whether this song could have been shared as a song about a historic person with an unnaturally long life, rather than a song about a vampire... Hmm.

The character of Count Andreas Petofi on the 1960s vampire soap opera "Dark Shadows" was an immortal (not a vampire, though). The character was specifically based on the legendary St. Germain.

[intheyear2004]

Here via...? Forgot how I got here.

But that's BS! Her publisher can't copyright St.Germain. For instance, Umberto Eco uses him, too, in "Foucault's Pendulum" and I'm sure I've seen him mentioned by a few other writers, too. He was a historical figure, more or less, after all. Someone should finally stand up to them. I'm pretty sure these publishers have no chance of winning that lawsuit.

[elfwreck]

She can't copyright St. Germain, but this is a song specifically about the St. Germain character from her books--the one who's a vampire and so forth.

The real issue is whether an author can suppress all uses of their characters and settings in other creative works. (Or possibly, whether they can suppress them in all non-parodic works.)

The publishers can win lawsuits if the defendant is poor... convincing a non-fannish, non-history-freak judge that something using "St Germain" is derivative of CQY's books isn't hard, if the other side can't explain why it's not. And all the publisher has to do is throw a few thousand dollars at the problem, and the fanficcer or filker or artist or whatever will almost certainly agree to an out-of-court settlement involving removing the work from public view.

After all, how many days of work can you miss to defend your right to share a short story by email?

[intheyear2004]

Oh, I understand. But still, there's such a thing as principle. Well, perhaps the OTW can help once it is established. I personally would risk that lawsuit in a heartbeat, because if you use another medium, like book to song, you sure can argue that that's transformative. I've no idea how lawsuits work where you are, but I'm not rich and I *never* hesitate to either sue or be sued and have sofar not lost much money. I mean, I do think you give the law too little credit, even an ignorant judge can be convinced, if you have a valid argument.

[elfwreck]

An ignorant judge can be convinced... if you show up or send a representative to court. Where do you live, and where does Ms. Yarbro live, and where does her publisher manage to file suit? (All rhetorical questions, those.)

If the song is recorded at the Ohio Valley Filk Fest convention, does it get prosecuted in Ohio, or in New York where the person who made the recording lives? Or in San Francisco, where LiveJournal is, if the lyrics were posted on LJ? Can the publisher find a way to file suit in whichever location is least convenient for you?With a lot of these cases, it's not so much that "the judges are idiots," but that it's hard for the defendants to even make a token attempt