I very much like your thoughts on why the Doctor simply couldn't see option 4. I've seen a few people unhappy that he couldn't see the solution because it made him seem stupid that he needs Amy to solve things. (To that I wonder what show they've been watching since that's the very reason he needs a companion - besides the the whole going nuts thing - they see things and solutions that he doesn't.)
Also, from his point of view, why would the whale stay when it has been tortured? He's disgusted with the humans and it makes sense that the whale would be too!
I very much like your thoughts on why the Doctor simply couldn't see option 4. Thank you - it struck me as very obvious when looked at in the overall context. (It's a little tricky to remember to tie things back to Ten since everything is so new and different.)
To that I wonder what show they've been watching since that's the very reason he needs a companion - besides the the whole going nuts thing - they see things and solutions that he doesn't. Very, very true!!!
Also, from his point of view, why would the whale stay when it has been tortured? He's disgusted with the humans and it makes sense that the whale would be too! Indeed. There's a lot in there about what we expect of other people, forgiveness, hope etc.
I'm thinking that possibly the children being fed to the whale is a hang over from when the police state was first set up, before they knew that the whale wouldn't eat children. Presumably the thought was that it would be an easy way to get rid of under achievers, keeping the population down and keeping their ride fed. Also if all the lifts work like that presumably if an underachieving adult, who had done badly at work or something, got on the lift the same thing would happen to them. That still happens so the system is kept in place. Also I imagine that the kids that do go down the chute are eventually turned into the half Smilers that we see.
Also I am so on board with the not caring about the plot holes. Given the choice between water tight plotting and shiny character stuff I'm going to be a soaking wet fangirl hugging her new sparkly toys every time.
Hmm that metaphor could use some work. But who cares because Eleven and Amy are adoreable.
Also I imagine that the kids that do go down the chute are eventually turned into the half Smilers that we see. Oooh now that is *inspired*. Yes, of course! (I think the whale mostly lives off 'scraps'/rubbish (considering that its mouth resembled a compost bin. But it certainly made for a perfect place to dispose of unwanted people.)
Given the choice between water tight plotting and shiny character stuff I'm going to be a soaking wet fangirl hugging her new sparkly toys every time. Hee! I think that's definitely a brilliant metaphor! And yes, Amy and Eleven are cute, and that's all that matter. :)
I suspect that "keeping the population intimidated and unquestioning" is more important than feeding the whale - since presumably it gets most of its nutrition from food waste rather than political prisoners.
(Unless Spaceship Britain is so overpopulated that they have to keep on feeding surplus people to the whale, or they'll run out of life support capacity? Now there's a darker twist to the story...)
But that aside, the thing about the Vator seems to me to be simply "Here's a petty rule, just to make life inconvenient for you and show you how much you suck and how pathetic you are. But if you defy authority and break the rule, you'll disappear and never be seen again. All about intimidation and enforcing the social order through fear. They probably don't expect anyone to take the Vator - but if some do and vanish, it just reinforces the fear of everybody else. (And gets rid of a dangerous rule-breaker too
( ... )
I suspect that "keeping the population intimidated and unquestioning" is more important than feeding the whale - since presumably it gets most of its nutrition from food waste rather than political prisoners. Yes, those were my thoughts too.
Unless Spaceship Britain is so overpopulated that they have to keep on feeding surplus people to the whale, or they'll run out of life support capacity? Now there's a darker twist to the story... Oooh, there's a thought. Hmm. Very dark indeed - I like it! :)
But that aside, the thing about the Vator seems to me to be simply "Here's a petty rule, just to make life inconvenient for you and show you how much you suck and how pathetic you are. But if you defy authority and break the rule, you'll disappear and never be seen again. All about intimidation and enforcing the social order through fear. *nods a lot* Those were the lines I was thinking along - it very well done.
the fact that he's apparently identical now to what he was when she was a small child suggests that he's unaging and immortal
( ... )
He tells her immediately that it's a time machine, so I think it's the other way round
Maybe. I'm just thinking about what would be easier for someone to accept - Amy doesn't really believe the TARDIS is a spaceship until he takes her into space, and I'm not sure she really believes it's a time machine until he takes her to London in 1940 to meet Churchill. Seeing is believing. On the other hand, the fact that the exact same man cam to see her when she was a little kid and when she was an adult has already convinced her that he's unchanging and eternal.
does this mean that you've jumped on the Who bandwagon?
I'm not sure I've ever been off it. I'm British, which means I hid behind the sofa as a child with the best of them. :-)
On the other hand, the fact that the exact same man cam to see her when she was a little kid and when she was an adult has already convinced her that he's unchanging and eternal. True. (He's like Santa & Peter Pan, all wrapped up in one!)
I'm not sure I've ever been off it. I'm British, which means I hid behind the sofa as a child with the best of them. :-) I realised that maybe I hadn't phrased that as well as I should have. *g*
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Also, from his point of view, why would the whale stay when it has been tortured? He's disgusted with the humans and it makes sense that the whale would be too!
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Thank you - it struck me as very obvious when looked at in the overall context. (It's a little tricky to remember to tie things back to Ten since everything is so new and different.)
To that I wonder what show they've been watching since that's the very reason he needs a companion - besides the the whole going nuts thing - they see things and solutions that he doesn't.
Very, very true!!!
Also, from his point of view, why would the whale stay when it has been tortured? He's disgusted with the humans and it makes sense that the whale would be too!
Indeed. There's a lot in there about what we expect of other people, forgiveness, hope etc.
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Also I am so on board with the not caring about the plot holes. Given the choice between water tight plotting and shiny character stuff I'm going to be a soaking wet fangirl hugging her new sparkly toys every time.
Hmm that metaphor could use some work. But who cares because Eleven and Amy are adoreable.
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Oooh now that is *inspired*. Yes, of course! (I think the whale mostly lives off 'scraps'/rubbish (considering that its mouth resembled a compost bin. But it certainly made for a perfect place to dispose of unwanted people.)
Given the choice between water tight plotting and shiny character stuff I'm going to be a soaking wet fangirl hugging her new sparkly toys every time.
Hee! I think that's definitely a brilliant metaphor! And yes, Amy and Eleven are cute, and that's all that matter. :)
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(Unless Spaceship Britain is so overpopulated that they have to keep on feeding surplus people to the whale, or they'll run out of life support capacity? Now there's a darker twist to the story...)
But that aside, the thing about the Vator seems to me to be simply "Here's a petty rule, just to make life inconvenient for you and show you how much you suck and how pathetic you are. But if you defy authority and break the rule, you'll disappear and never be seen again. All about intimidation and enforcing the social order through fear. They probably don't expect anyone to take the Vator - but if some do and vanish, it just reinforces the fear of everybody else. (And gets rid of a dangerous rule-breaker too ( ... )
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Yes, those were my thoughts too.
Unless Spaceship Britain is so overpopulated that they have to keep on feeding surplus people to the whale, or they'll run out of life support capacity? Now there's a darker twist to the story...
Oooh, there's a thought. Hmm. Very dark indeed - I like it! :)
But that aside, the thing about the Vator seems to me to be simply "Here's a petty rule, just to make life inconvenient for you and show you how much you suck and how pathetic you are. But if you defy authority and break the rule, you'll disappear and never be seen again. All about intimidation and enforcing the social order through fear.
*nods a lot* Those were the lines I was thinking along - it very well done.
the fact that he's apparently identical now to what he was when she was a small child suggests that he's unaging and immortal ( ... )
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Maybe. I'm just thinking about what would be easier for someone to accept - Amy doesn't really believe the TARDIS is a spaceship until he takes her into space, and I'm not sure she really believes it's a time machine until he takes her to London in 1940 to meet Churchill. Seeing is believing. On the other hand, the fact that the exact same man cam to see her when she was a little kid and when she was an adult has already convinced her that he's unchanging and eternal.
does this mean that you've jumped on the Who bandwagon?
I'm not sure I've ever been off it. I'm British, which means I hid behind the sofa as a child with the best of them. :-)
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True. (He's like Santa & Peter Pan, all wrapped up in one!)
I'm not sure I've ever been off it. I'm British, which means I hid behind the sofa as a child with the best of them. :-)
I realised that maybe I hadn't phrased that as well as I should have. *g*
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