many thanks for this! I don't have the temperament for martial arts study, but it is very interesting--and of course rather sad and pathetic--to read up on this sort of thing--the historical reality and the modern fraudulent attempt to reproduce it and then claim some sort of faked lineage for it.
I recently saw some drawings of wrestling positions in a book by Nigel Pennick on the Northern Tradition--have of course not the slightest clue where or when the drawings originated, but saw that you've been exploring this in a practical way--again, fascinating for a mere scribbler such as myself to read about.
There was a quote from one episode of NCIS, when Gibbs and DiNozzo were sparring in the gym, and DiNozzo asked Gibbs if he had "been taught boxing when in the Marine Corps" and that he should pick it up when Gibbs replied in the negative. After being pounded to the ground, Gibbs replied that the Marine Corps taught how to "fight".
I think it puts a lot into perspective there. Specifically, people forget that advanced Martial Arts are, still, arts. They're scripted maneuvers that are conducted under carefully organized and choreographed rules and regulations. Even sparring and tournaments aren't "Fighting".
I had a couple friends at Uni that did some MMA for a while. Specifically amongst themselves, just to pass the time. We introduced a new member of the group, a 9-year tournament fighter who had trained in Shodokan.
He got his ass whooped because he was trained only in Shodokan. He couldn't predict the maneuvers that my friend Vinny would throw in at him, and Vinny moved completely differently because he brought in his
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I can certainly respect (and agree) with the historical lack of integrity inherent in Stav that you point out. My biggest beef with it, however, is the actual practice, which, as you also pointed out sucks. Sucks hard. Sure its an ancient combat art...if combat consists of broken movements applied against completely lifeless rag doll attackers (makes the uke of the Bujinkan look dynamic). Ye gods what a mess.
What baffles me is that ANYONE studies it, let alone promotes it. People mystify me.
If I may, I'd like to derail for a moment to point out that there are different strains of Bujinkan throughout the world - and the people I know who practice here in Adelaide, Australia tend to look askance at the Americans for a lot of the reasons eosin has mentioned regarding Stav
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Bujinkan was the last Asian art I did before finding reconstructed renaissance martial arts. It was also the most comprehensive in approach, including dealing with guns. I remember a long time ago asking the instructor about Western sword technique, and he replied very honestly about it being very different.
flip side, an ancient art that's still practised actively... (I suspect)winterlionMarch 30 2010, 04:00:03 UTC
I'm just thinking of a historical martial art which is still practised, taught and maintained... Roman legionnaire tactics are still the primary training method of riot squads - and are still brutally effective. (source: a group of mad SCA fighters that used to help the RCMP train their riot squads by providing hordes of armed enemies) Watching them in action (I've also seen videos) you can see how 1000 Roman legionnaires could take on - and defeat - 10 000. (Rome versus Bodiccea's army, if I remember the odds right)
it's not really THAT related, beyond a historical martial art that's survived.
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I recently saw some drawings of wrestling positions in a book by Nigel Pennick on the Northern Tradition--have of course not the slightest clue where or when the drawings originated, but saw that you've been exploring this in a practical way--again, fascinating for a mere scribbler such as myself to read about.
In Frith,
Shimmer
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I think it puts a lot into perspective there. Specifically, people forget that advanced Martial Arts are, still, arts. They're scripted maneuvers that are conducted under carefully organized and choreographed rules and regulations. Even sparring and tournaments aren't "Fighting".
I had a couple friends at Uni that did some MMA for a while. Specifically amongst themselves, just to pass the time. We introduced a new member of the group, a 9-year tournament fighter who had trained in Shodokan.
He got his ass whooped because he was trained only in Shodokan. He couldn't predict the maneuvers that my friend Vinny would throw in at him, and Vinny moved completely differently because he brought in his ( ... )
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What baffles me is that ANYONE studies it, let alone promotes it. People mystify me.
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Bujinkan was the last Asian art I did before finding reconstructed renaissance martial arts. It was also the most comprehensive in approach, including dealing with guns. I remember a long time ago asking the instructor about Western sword technique, and he replied very honestly about it being very different.
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Watching them in action (I've also seen videos) you can see how 1000 Roman legionnaires could take on - and defeat - 10 000. (Rome versus Bodiccea's army, if I remember the odds right)
it's not really THAT related, beyond a historical martial art that's survived.
Reply
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