all of the extras!! yasss!!

[inboots]

You can watch this video on www.livejournal.com

13:37 minutes long!

SOURCE!!! - http://englishdwarf.tumblr.com/post/9543997867/ok-here-are-the-deleted-scenes-all-together-the

Comments

[kerame]

It's either another chunk of, "yeah let's get these guys some action cuz it's a comic book blockbuster film" or it's erik, you just gave that girl a pep talk on self confidence and pride. you don't need to kiss her to make her feel pretty, too because that comes off as a lil bit sexist.

I thought the pass was completely necessary, and that nothing else (aside from long-term therapy) would have given Raven the ego-boost she wanted, and the push towards mutant suprematism that Erik wanted.

It's one of the reasons I think a lot of posters are very unfair to Charles in his interactions with her. A brother shouldn't be expected to make his sister feel sexy, and Erik was less about giving her pride in herself, than encouraging feelings of mutant superiority.

[veronica_rich]

I think the issue a lot of critics have with Charles is he's basically encouraging Raven to fall back on her privilege of looking white and pretty to avoid the hard dealings with other people, and he's not making her feel good about how she naturally looks as family should. Which - I can see that POV, but given it's the 1960s and mutants are new/unknown things and she looks a LOT different than anyone else, I see it more as Charles trying to help her have a smoother, safer life (whether that's bad or good, you decide). I have a younger sister; I understand the mindset, somewhat.

[kerame]

mutants are new/unknown things and she looks a LOT different than anyone else, I see it more as Charles trying to help her have a smoother, safer life

I think most critics just overlook those specifics too easily in favor of metaphors and personal experiences. When Charles scolds her at the bar, he isn't even sure other mutants exists. She wouldn't be seen as a member of a different race, she'd be seen as some sort of alien.

The way she rebels is also rather relentlessly sexual: Cock-blocking him at the bar out of pique and jealousy, showing herself to him naked, asking if he'd date her. It's just not fair to put someone who sees her as a sister in that position.

I feel sympathy for her at times, but I don't really know what else Charles could have done under the circumstances, and she seems to show less consideration and kindness towards him than he does towards her. That's understandable in a teenager, but it makes me see her as a bit of a brat, rather than Charles as a dick.

[inboots]

she seems to show less consideration and kindness towards him than he does towards her

ia, tbh. i was discussing with someone over at ontd the other day that i don't understand where the trope of raven being an overprotective sister in charles/erik fics comes from. it's the other way around.

[kerame]

I think most fans, identify most directly with Raven as a young woman with body issues, and therefore want to invest her with good qualities, just as they seem to want to invest the person she's most frustrated with with bad ones.

[sandoz_iscariot]

My guess is that there's a bit of a desire to fix or "make up for" Raven leaving him injured on the beach. But yeah.

[veronica_rich]

The problem I see in these kinds of critiques is they relegate Charles to the role of Oppressive Male rather than recognizing the familial relationship (which may be based somewhat on gender, but I'm betting more on personal feelings of worry and filial love - he might treat a younger brother differently, but I still say he's a product of his time and not inherently sexist. He worked with Moira well enough, and Angel, and treated Emma as a viable threat).

[aleapandfly]

i can see where you're coming from but i personally disagree with the... it was mostly for mutant superiority bit. i do think what you're saying holds merits though. idk. i'd be interested to hear what the writers had to say about it, or even fassbender. i'm just curious~

[kerame]

I didn't mean to imply that Erik's behavior in the scene was primarily political (though I think it was partly that), rather that what he finds attractive and wants her to feel pride in is her mutation. Her value lies in her mutation, rather than her personality, mind, etc. Is that really encouraging pride and self-confidence or fetishization?

It's why I find it completely believable that he would drop her like a bad habit if she lost it, as Magneto did in X3.

[inboots]

wow, dude, i hadn't even considered this.

that said, raven's confidence issue in this movie was framed in such way that it seemed all about her mutation/looks, not so much mind and personality. so i think he identified the problem and said what she needed to hear.

i'm not ready to push it to fetishization (even tho the comparison to a tiger was :|), but yeah. i, too, find it "believable that he would drop her like a bad habit if she lost it".

you should write meta, i'd read it :D

[kerame]

Thanks:). Maybe fetishization was the wrong word. I think at this point in the story, mutation is all that really matters about a person to Erik, with the probable exception of Charles. That's why Charles has to part from him at the end of the movie and there really isn't a possibility of compromising and finding common ground on a regular basis.

Their differences aren't in the degree of violence they're willing to apply, it's that Erik really feels non-mutated ordinary human are inherently of lesser worth and Charles doesn't.

[inboots]

omg. i'mma copy and paste all your comments in this post into a meta-collage.

have you read this - http://seperis.dreamwidth.org/86111.html?#cutid1 ??

Their differences aren't in the degree of violence they're willing to apply, it's that Erik really feels non-mutated ordinary human are inherently of lesser worth and Charles doesn't.

i have this desire to agree based on what i know of other sources, but i think there's an argument to be made in xmfc that charles doesn't completely disagree with him based on his thesis. i mean, they both see end game the same way. idk. but i love your insights <3, so ty for them!!

[kerame]

I'm so flattered :)

I just read the essay, and thought she made some great points some of which I agree with, but I'll just focus on the break-up. I think that while there was no excuse for leaving him on the beach, and that abandonment violates Erik's cardinal virtue of loyalty, the break-up was completely necessary at the point where Erik explicitly accepts Shaw's master-race beliefs and takes on his mission, and became unavoidable when Charles saw Erik try to put those beliefs into action.

While I agree that Charles finds every new mutant fascinating in a way he wouldn't find every human (though I'm sure he'd be enthused over any unusual talent), and may believe in a fairly abstract, theoretical way that mutants will succeed humans in time, when it comes to facts on the ground, the value of every life and the rights accorded to individuals, there is no common ground between them.

I don't think it's personal. I think Charles could fairly easily forgive the coin-slice and the paralysis, but they genuinely don't want the same

[aleapandfly]

yeah i can see that. it's a good point, but like i said i'm curious to know how the writers intended it, since it goes both ways and is really ambiguous.

with that said, idk what this x3 you are speaking of is