Writing as a tool to explore fantasies

[evangeline1138]

Prompted by a discussion on the SGCdarkfic list....

This has probably been discussed before ad nauseum, but since I rarely get to read anything--online or otherwise--these days, please bear with me.

Comments

[splash_the_cat]

Writing fic for me isn't about writing my fantasies. That's what I'd use original work for. Fic, for me, is to further explore and expand the characters I love, in a manner that is consistent with canon or can be extrapolated from canon. I write about the characters I see on screen because I want to see more of those characters, not my personal fantasies which may involve them. I'm much less comfortable with the thought of writing fic as an expression of my personal fantasies than I am with writing Sam and Daniel having hot, dirty, graphic sex on the gate ramp with half the SGC watching

[evangeline1138]

I write about the characters I see on screen because I want to see more of those characters, not my personal fantasies which may involve them.

That's why I'm interested in writing fic, too, but along the way (after scanning through the snippets on my HD several months ago) I realized that I was weaving some of my own personal fantasies into my writing. It wasn't conscious--at least not at first. *g* I do try to keep the characters *in* character. I don't really have a feel for whether or not I'm doing that very well or not, but hopefully that will come with time. As such, I don't suppose that what I am writing is as Mary Sueish as I thought at first. After all, I see very little of Sam in myself, and vice versa. The Sam I *try* to write is nothing like me; whether I succeed at the portrayal or not is a question that interests me, of course, but I'm trying to give myself some time before I begin to judge myself too harshly.

... writing it to see where I can make the characters go in a manner that might be a believable extrapolation

part 1

[wisdomeagle]

Hey! I'm here via friendsfriends and since you asked for discussion I'm more than happy to discuss rather than actually attempting to write...

Is it a Mary Sue when I try to keep Sam in character even though it's something we would never see onscreen because of its dark or sexual content and it's kind of a fantasy self-insertion?Well... I think that "Sam in character" and "self-insert" are pretty much the two opposite poles. Because, unless you're actually Sam Carter, then the self you'd insert would be pretty different from Sam herself. But on the other hand, as always comes up in Mary Sue discussions, we all put a little bit of ourselves into the characters we write, regardless of who they are. Our own experience is the only one we know first hand. Since you're talking specifically about OT3... I suppose one of the ways to start thinking about it is to take your experience of fantasy/desire and try to see how that would fit in with Sam's experience of the same fantasies/desires... err. I don't think I'm being very articulate here

Re: part 1

[evangeline1138]

I'm here via friendsfriends and since you asked for discussion I'm more than happy to discuss rather than actually attempting to write...

Hi! Thanks for visiting! (I'm supposed to be writing, too. Or rewriting. Or something. *hopes Julie doesn't notice attempts to non-write and non-rewrite*)

...I think my point is that one's own experience is a starting point, but one of the goals of writing fiction is to move beyond oneself and imagine seeing the world through someone else's eyes.Yes, I can definitely see that. Well, I can try to, at any rate. :-) I think that's why OT3 or OT4 seems almost as likely to happen as any regular pairing in Stargate to me at this point. Despite the humor that I love in the show, it does contain very dark subject matter. There aren't many things I would consider worse than being enslaved in your own body and being forced to do very despicable things against your will. The angst is rampant on so many levels--we just don't get to see it. We do get hints of it, though, such as Teal'c's comment to Daniel in

part 2

[wisdomeagle]

Another question (or two): Did most of you writers out there begin by writing fic that explored their own fantasies and later moved into more unfamiliar territory (whether that would be genre or pairings)?I started with original fic, not fanfic, and... well, yes. I started with fics that really obviously hit my kinks. But I guess what you're asking is more about specific, personal fantasies, to which the answer is also... yes. Most definitely. And the writing was pretty bad and the plots worse and now I'm thoroughly ashamed of most of what I wrote as a young adolescent. Once I entered fandom... I started writing Jack/Daniel and then Daniel/Sam and one Sam/Catherine, which was definitely on the This Is A Kink Of Mine level, but I ended up writing lots and lots and LOTS of different pairings and characters and scenarios. Lots of it isn't neccessarily obviously my fantasies and doesn't relate obviously to my life, but in some way, everything I write I relate to in some way -- or else I wouldn't be able to write it. It would be empty

Re: part 2

[evangeline1138]

And the writing was pretty bad and the plots worse and now I'm thoroughly ashamed of most of what I wrote as a young adolescent.

So many people say that that I'm starting to believe the reason adolescence exists for writers is to get bad!fic out of their systems. Too bad I stopped writing after 6th grade and just started again when I entered online fandom. Now I'll have to get it out of my system in my late thirties. *laugh*

Lots of it isn't neccessarily obviously my fantasies and doesn't relate obviously to my life, but in some way, everything I write I relate to in some way -- or else I wouldn't be able to write it. It would be empty.

I suppose I never thought of it in quite that way before. Thanks for giving me a new angle to ponder.

In that way, it's easier for me to jump from pairing to pairing to ensure that every story will be unique.Regarding the concept of uniqueness, have you ever noticed any sort of theme that runs throughout many of your stories? I've been trying to decide whether or not similar themes are a bad thing

Re: part 2

[wisdomeagle]

Regarding the concept of uniqueness, have you ever noticed any sort of theme that runs throughout many of your stories? (snip) Anyway, I was wondering if you ever noticed a trend in your fic--original or fanfic--to use the same types of characters, situations, emotions, etc., despite the fic being unique in every other way.

Honestly, I haven't. People occasionally talk about themes they see in their fic or what the one story that they tell over and over again is, and I'm not really sure what mine is. There are several themes I use repeatedly, and I think I have a style that is somehow recognizably mine, and there are definitely story patterns that I especially enjoy -- once someone described my fic as being about what she called "going away-ness," and I guess that's something I write a lot -- people leaving, or having moments that are somehow removed from the real world and then returning to that world -- hmm! I have been trying to figure this out for a long time and I'm not sure exactly what they are but I think I do have themes:

Re: part 2

[evangeline1138]

I guess that's something I write a lot -- people leaving, or having moments that are somehow removed from the real world and then returning to that world [snip] I think I do have themes: nostalgia, homesickness, remember-when, then-and-now...

Well, I haven't read any other stories of yours besides the one you provided the link to (an oversight I hope to rectify in the near future *g*), but I can definitely see these themes in "Highest Wisdom, Deepest Love"--that feeling of longing for things to be as they were and the sense of overwhelming grief and isolation that is transformed through meditation and dreaming to finally culminate in a combining and a "coming home." Whew. *That* sentence was overly long. I need to remind myself sometimes of the very thing I say to the people I tutor: The period is your friend. *laugh*

[splash_the_cat]

Come to think of it, what I said in the comment above is also why I get so irritated with some of the fic requests that come across the lists. Because they're so often blatant requests to write someone's personal (usually sexual) fantasy for them. Which I find irritating as a writer, this idea that I am expected to write what you want, not what I want, and faintly squicky as a list member. Because I really don't want to know, to that level of detail, what gets some people off.

Equally irritating isthe attitude I see on some lists (like the SJ17+ list, and after that discussion on the darkfic list, that list too) that the list should cater to a list member's personal tastes. Um, no.

[evangeline1138]

Well, I have to admit that it makes me feel more uncomfortable than irritated when I see some of the requests--at least when I am asked to write them. If they're just posted to the lists and they're really outrageous or extremely specific, I just roll my eyes, laugh, and move on (and yes, dear one, MOCK *g*). But I'm SOOO much newer to this than you are. I suppose after writing as long as you've been and hearing all sorts of demands, I may get a bit irritated, too. Snarky, even. (Is THAT why Jara has such an attitude? *hides*)

Equally irritating isthe attitude I see on some lists...that the list should cater to a list member's personal tastes.

Well, as someone said on the darkfic list, that may be due to fear of your favorite type of fic getting marginalized and eventually booted out altogether. I think it's easier to understand that fear when your taste in fic is a bit more rare than many others and you yourself don't write at all. It must be easy to imagine your meager sources drying up.

[daisycm83]

Hrm. I have to say, I'm more with splash_the_cat on this one. I try to avoid writing anything that's too easily identifiable for me as my own personal fantasy, because it's *me* and not the characters. Everyone knows that about as canon-bound as you can get, and so when I sit down to write fic there's always a conscious effort to make things *they* would say and do rather than things that *I* would say and do. Whether or not I always succeed is an entirely separate issue

[evangeline1138]

I try to avoid writing anything that's too easily identifiable for me as my own personal fantasy, because it's *me* and not the characters. Everyone knows that about as canon-bound as you can get, and so when I sit down to write fic there's always a conscious effort to make things *they* would say and do rather than things that *I* would say and do.I don't think I explained myself very well before, which isn't a first. *g* I don't think about making fic that is part of one of my fantasies, but many times after writing a snippet, I can examine it and find a little or a lot of my fantasy life in there. Hopefully my Sam is more *Sam* and less me. I really can't imagine her being much like me in my fic at all, because we are very different people (in many more ways than the fact that she is fictional and I am real *g*). I try to make her--and the others--in character despite the non-canon situations I put her into. "Canon" and "in character" don't necessarily mean the same thing. Putting Sam and Jack together in a sexual relationship is

[daisycm83]

Okay, well *reading* yourself into a fic I think is a fairly common experience. Why do you think there are so many dime a dozen cheesy romance novels out there? Words are powerful things, and invoking an image that hits a few of your personal kinks is fun.

Maybe I'm being extreme, but it always seems that past a certain point no relationship is possible. What I'm really trying to say, I guess, is that any relationship beyond friendship for ANY of them seems impossible by now.Awe. Pessimistic Eva? *pets Eva* I don't know. I guess that there was *enough* resolved on screen that my brain pretty much sees S/J as canon at this point. Especially after a few comments AT has been reported to make. It doesn't stretch the limits of my imagination at all (I mean that in a good way, even if it sounds like a bad thing). OT3 fic, in this genre, does. I'm not sure why. I could go into this whole idea I sort of vaguely have about how OT3 fic to me tends to indicate slightly broken!SG-1, and that's a concept I really don't buy, but I won't because

continuation of reply

[evangeline1138]

I know that since I've started writing again, I've consciously tried to push myself out of my comfort zone. Sometimes I manage it, sometimes I don't, but it's always a challenge I enjoy.

Oddly enough, I don't have a comfort zone. I think (I hope) that's because it's been a long time since I've written creatively instead of just writing papers and essays for high school and college. I'm very comfortable writing academically, even if it's not a strictly academic paper. Maybe I should pretend I'm being graded when I write instead of being judged by peers. *makes face* Silly, I know.

Good luck on your fic, my dear! *hugs*

Thanks. I'll need it. *hugs back*