MORE FEELINGS, SORRY FOR THE SPAM F-LIST
Ok, I have a job for the next week teaching English, but gorging on Tumblr posts about both Downton and Doctor Who have given me major emotions that I need to get rid of or I will not be able to concentrate.
First of all, I know quite a few people don't like Rory, which I don't understand but you know, let's agree to disagree, I don't have the time for DW fandom arguments (side-eyeing YOU, Rose fanatics). But then I read someone's argument that part of the reason they don't want Rory around on the show is because of his relationship to Amy; that how they both have been written and the storylines they've been given have diminished her agency and development as a character.
Let's separate this into 2 issues: the storylines' effect on Amy, and Rory's effect on Amy.
The basic complaint I've seen about this series and Amy is this: that the kidnapping + forced childbirth plot meant that Moffat had taken away Amy's agency, that it was the standard misogynistic sci-fi magical pregnancy plot whereby the woman is only being used as a vessel for a higher power or in order for the important child to be born. I do have objections to this usually, but she was pregnant normally and not as part of some greater plan (even if it was TARDIS influenced); the villains saw this as an opportunity and then kidnapped her. It was all clearly presented as wrong and an obvious act of violence against Amy - and she's not important only because she's River's mother, Amy's always been so much more than that, she's always been important just for being herself. As for the agency thing: the doctor said it himself, her heart and soul were with them - she made all those decisions about pirate swashbuckling and running around the TARDIS herself, just as she's always done.
This argument about agency simply ties into a larger theme anyway: that the Doctor gets too involved with the lives of those who travel with him; he affects huge parts of their lives and occasionally ruins them. No-one is ever completely free of influences that inform their decisions and no-one acts in a vacuum - sometimes the circumstances of your life will take you somewhere you weren't planning on going to. The whole point of Amy's and Rory's life being so bonkers when they hadn't meant it to be like this is just like that of other companions; when you choose to travel with the doctor and continue to do it for a long time (getting married!) there will be consequences simply because life on the TARDIS with him is unpredictable. I'm not saying it's their fault, but the doctor is a magnet for uncontrollable forces and situations, so it's inevitable that their agency will be diminished even more. Life with the doctor is a massive magnification of ordinary life not going the way you intended it to.
Do I wish Moff had chosen not to go with the kidnapping surprise birth plot? Yes, because we do get enough of that already (just let them have the child normally and then have it kidnapped, why not?). As it is though, I don't see it as the incredible degrading anti-feminist plot everyone thinks it is.
Briefly, the 'Rory diminishes Amy' argument. WHAT THE EVER LOVING HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? This would be right if they constantly showed Amy as relying on him, or thinking that she couldn't be anything/exist without him (hi Twilight, go burn to ashes please), or if their relationship made her character or narrative arc go backwards. If you can give me examples I want to have a discussion about it, but I have not seen that happening. She still has that sense of adventure and wonder and curiosity, she still disobeys the Doctor and does what she wants, and Rory doesn't stop her or tries to. He says they have to grow up sometime, but he never says 'you cannot do this'. He is her constant when the Doctor is the variable; she knows he will be there when the Doctor leaves, and it was the case even when they were just teenagers and friends. She runs away from that because she was frightened of growing up, settling down and not becoming something extraordinary and fulfilling her potential (as do all companions, isn't that why DW is so magical?), but she's realised that growing up doesn't necessitate being boring, and neither does stability. Ordinary life doesn't make people any less amazing simply because they don't save the universe everyday (I loved Rory's comment in The God Complex, it's so him), and the Doctor knows this. The way Amy's developed over the past two series means that she knows this too, and it's only the circumstances surrounding Melody in addition to her appetite for new sights and adventures that's kept her going. Now she knows doing this hurts the Doctor, she's willing to let go; she does not have a freaking-out aversion to everyday life.
Also there was an implication that Rory acts like a dick most of the time, which, WRONG. Not to say that he's perfect, but honestly the majority of the time he is one of the nicest companions there have ever been on Who. WHAT CHARACTER ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HATERS?! Truly, I would like examples of when he's an idiot and why you don't like him, because I do not see this. He is the lone voice of sanity on the TARDIS, the one who sees the joys and victories in the everyday as well as the universal, solid and steadfast and quietly concerned, funny and intelligent. He's fearful and insecure, and if something threatens things he loves he lashes out, but he's never spiteful, he never hurts people on purpose. He doesn't restrain Amy because, well, who could? But also he just wants her to be happy, and travelling around with the Doctor makes her happy, so he goes along with it.
Alright, that's my rant over. COME AT ME WITH DISCUSSION PEOPLE, I AM READY.
OK, DOWNTON FEELINGS, AND BY THAT I MEAN SHALLOWNESS:
Sybil is so beautiful I can't stand it; also I am praying that Branson doesn't die either in the war or the Irish uprisings, augggghh please say they're not doomed! BET ON HIM GIRL.
Oh my godddddd, her mouth is seriously the most perfect one I've ever seen, and his stupid earnest Irish eyeessss, I HATE YOU BOTH FOR MAKING ME FEEL THINGS. Gotta echo welurklate, I just want them to live in London as sassy bohemian progressives scandalising her family.
If I had Tumblr (not ever because it is a timesucker already, so never never never) my tags would basically be #keysmash of LUST, #oh my godddd and #being silent because I'm CHEWING MY ARM OFF. All I need now is Allen Leech to get in a toga again.
And yet I still think he looks hotter when spattered with mud in the trenches. Matthew COME BACK SAFE SO YOU AND MARY CAN MAKE UP AND BANG AND MARRY AND BICKER
Speaking of which, I am dying, just, augh, they are still so in love and Michelle is a goddess; all that calculated show of happiness is such a defence against completely breaking down because she has to carry on, she wants him to be safe and happy and meanwhile for him Downton is a haven of normality, Lavinia is a lovely girl, but he can SEE that still Mary isn't as cold or calm or content as she would have everyone believe. THEY ARE JUST PERFECT FOR EACH OTHER AND JULIAN IS GOING TO TORTURE US FOR THE REST OF THE SERIES, ISN'T HE?
STOP RUINING MY LIFE YOU TWO!!! STOP. IT. NOW.
Meanwhile, apart from Thomas guess whose narrative arc I am most excited for?
Look at her face! No way is she actually plain - it's always that she is not her father's or mother's favourite and Mary and Sybil both have overwhelming, easy-to-notice personalities, so she just gets lost in this household. REMEMBER WHEN SHE COULDN'T BELIEVE SHE MIGHT BE GETTING MARRIED AND SHE HAD DISBELIEVING DIMPLES TO GO WITH HER SMILE?
Anyway, these girls are what I love most (tho' Anna is my homegirl too):
As someone said, Mary looking out, Edith looking in, Sybil looking up. PERFECTION. Let's just repeat what I said to welurklate: I just love the Crawley sisters as a unit, and their different personalities just mirror their ages and expectations and outlooks on life. Mary's the beautiful eldest one with all the expectation of making a good marriage, but she doesn't really give a damn, whereas Edith really fucking does because she NEEDS TO GET OUT OF THE HOUSE and wants some approval/attention, and Sybil's the baby so obviously she gets away with anything and is rebellious/idealistic.
I think the best summary of them is that Sybil forgets her place in society, Mary wants to forget, Edith will never let herself forget. (Love you anythingbutgrey, your Downton fic was stunning).IDK SISTERS CRAWLEY STAN HERE, I love how they relate to each other and interact, so naturally I am excited for seeing Edith progress as a character. Social and gender boundaries starting to break down during this series, and I am so on tenterhooks seeing them all react to that.
God, the only thing on this show that gives me joy without pain is Lady Violet - Maggie Smith is fantastic, and every line Julian gives her I am sobbing with laughter:
POOR LAVINIA.
BEDTIME NOW, maybe I can get to the weekend without thinking about either of these two TV life ruiners. whatever, probably not but i will try my hardest!
ETA: Guys, when I said I wanted discussion, I didn't want patronising attitudes towards other people's opinions. PLEASE BE POLITE. I have extra work over the next few days so thinking about what you've all said and responding to it all will be put off, but I haven't forgotten and I will be back, if you still feel like debating everything. Some interesting stuff being said, cheers everyone.
First of all, I know quite a few people don't like Rory, which I don't understand but you know, let's agree to disagree, I don't have the time for DW fandom arguments (side-eyeing YOU, Rose fanatics). But then I read someone's argument that part of the reason they don't want Rory around on the show is because of his relationship to Amy; that how they both have been written and the storylines they've been given have diminished her agency and development as a character.
Let's separate this into 2 issues: the storylines' effect on Amy, and Rory's effect on Amy.
The basic complaint I've seen about this series and Amy is this: that the kidnapping + forced childbirth plot meant that Moffat had taken away Amy's agency, that it was the standard misogynistic sci-fi magical pregnancy plot whereby the woman is only being used as a vessel for a higher power or in order for the important child to be born. I do have objections to this usually, but she was pregnant normally and not as part of some greater plan (even if it was TARDIS influenced); the villains saw this as an opportunity and then kidnapped her. It was all clearly presented as wrong and an obvious act of violence against Amy - and she's not important only because she's River's mother, Amy's always been so much more than that, she's always been important just for being herself. As for the agency thing: the doctor said it himself, her heart and soul were with them - she made all those decisions about pirate swashbuckling and running around the TARDIS herself, just as she's always done.
This argument about agency simply ties into a larger theme anyway: that the Doctor gets too involved with the lives of those who travel with him; he affects huge parts of their lives and occasionally ruins them. No-one is ever completely free of influences that inform their decisions and no-one acts in a vacuum - sometimes the circumstances of your life will take you somewhere you weren't planning on going to. The whole point of Amy's and Rory's life being so bonkers when they hadn't meant it to be like this is just like that of other companions; when you choose to travel with the doctor and continue to do it for a long time (getting married!) there will be consequences simply because life on the TARDIS with him is unpredictable. I'm not saying it's their fault, but the doctor is a magnet for uncontrollable forces and situations, so it's inevitable that their agency will be diminished even more. Life with the doctor is a massive magnification of ordinary life not going the way you intended it to.
Do I wish Moff had chosen not to go with the kidnapping surprise birth plot? Yes, because we do get enough of that already (just let them have the child normally and then have it kidnapped, why not?). As it is though, I don't see it as the incredible degrading anti-feminist plot everyone thinks it is.
Briefly, the 'Rory diminishes Amy' argument. WHAT THE EVER LOVING HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? This would be right if they constantly showed Amy as relying on him, or thinking that she couldn't be anything/exist without him (hi Twilight, go burn to ashes please), or if their relationship made her character or narrative arc go backwards. If you can give me examples I want to have a discussion about it, but I have not seen that happening. She still has that sense of adventure and wonder and curiosity, she still disobeys the Doctor and does what she wants, and Rory doesn't stop her or tries to. He says they have to grow up sometime, but he never says 'you cannot do this'. He is her constant when the Doctor is the variable; she knows he will be there when the Doctor leaves, and it was the case even when they were just teenagers and friends. She runs away from that because she was frightened of growing up, settling down and not becoming something extraordinary and fulfilling her potential (as do all companions, isn't that why DW is so magical?), but she's realised that growing up doesn't necessitate being boring, and neither does stability. Ordinary life doesn't make people any less amazing simply because they don't save the universe everyday (I loved Rory's comment in The God Complex, it's so him), and the Doctor knows this. The way Amy's developed over the past two series means that she knows this too, and it's only the circumstances surrounding Melody in addition to her appetite for new sights and adventures that's kept her going. Now she knows doing this hurts the Doctor, she's willing to let go; she does not have a freaking-out aversion to everyday life.
Also there was an implication that Rory acts like a dick most of the time, which, WRONG. Not to say that he's perfect, but honestly the majority of the time he is one of the nicest companions there have ever been on Who. WHAT CHARACTER ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT HATERS?! Truly, I would like examples of when he's an idiot and why you don't like him, because I do not see this. He is the lone voice of sanity on the TARDIS, the one who sees the joys and victories in the everyday as well as the universal, solid and steadfast and quietly concerned, funny and intelligent. He's fearful and insecure, and if something threatens things he loves he lashes out, but he's never spiteful, he never hurts people on purpose. He doesn't restrain Amy because, well, who could? But also he just wants her to be happy, and travelling around with the Doctor makes her happy, so he goes along with it.
Alright, that's my rant over. COME AT ME WITH DISCUSSION PEOPLE, I AM READY.
OK, DOWNTON FEELINGS, AND BY THAT I MEAN SHALLOWNESS:
Sybil is so beautiful I can't stand it; also I am praying that Branson doesn't die either in the war or the Irish uprisings, augggghh please say they're not doomed! BET ON HIM GIRL.
Oh my godddddd, her mouth is seriously the most perfect one I've ever seen, and his stupid earnest Irish eyeessss, I HATE YOU BOTH FOR MAKING ME FEEL THINGS. Gotta echo welurklate, I just want them to live in London as sassy bohemian progressives scandalising her family.
If I had Tumblr (not ever because it is a timesucker already, so never never never) my tags would basically be #keysmash of LUST, #oh my godddd and #being silent because I'm CHEWING MY ARM OFF. All I need now is Allen Leech to get in a toga again.
And yet I still think he looks hotter when spattered with mud in the trenches. Matthew COME BACK SAFE SO YOU AND MARY CAN MAKE UP AND BANG AND MARRY AND BICKER
Speaking of which, I am dying, just, augh, they are still so in love and Michelle is a goddess; all that calculated show of happiness is such a defence against completely breaking down because she has to carry on, she wants him to be safe and happy and meanwhile for him Downton is a haven of normality, Lavinia is a lovely girl, but he can SEE that still Mary isn't as cold or calm or content as she would have everyone believe. THEY ARE JUST PERFECT FOR EACH OTHER AND JULIAN IS GOING TO TORTURE US FOR THE REST OF THE SERIES, ISN'T HE?
STOP RUINING MY LIFE YOU TWO!!! STOP. IT. NOW.
Meanwhile, apart from Thomas guess whose narrative arc I am most excited for?
Look at her face! No way is she actually plain - it's always that she is not her father's or mother's favourite and Mary and Sybil both have overwhelming, easy-to-notice personalities, so she just gets lost in this household. REMEMBER WHEN SHE COULDN'T BELIEVE SHE MIGHT BE GETTING MARRIED AND SHE HAD DISBELIEVING DIMPLES TO GO WITH HER SMILE?
Anyway, these girls are what I love most (tho' Anna is my homegirl too):
As someone said, Mary looking out, Edith looking in, Sybil looking up. PERFECTION. Let's just repeat what I said to welurklate: I just love the Crawley sisters as a unit, and their different personalities just mirror their ages and expectations and outlooks on life. Mary's the beautiful eldest one with all the expectation of making a good marriage, but she doesn't really give a damn, whereas Edith really fucking does because she NEEDS TO GET OUT OF THE HOUSE and wants some approval/attention, and Sybil's the baby so obviously she gets away with anything and is rebellious/idealistic.
I think the best summary of them is that Sybil forgets her place in society, Mary wants to forget, Edith will never let herself forget. (Love you anythingbutgrey, your Downton fic was stunning).IDK SISTERS CRAWLEY STAN HERE, I love how they relate to each other and interact, so naturally I am excited for seeing Edith progress as a character. Social and gender boundaries starting to break down during this series, and I am so on tenterhooks seeing them all react to that.
God, the only thing on this show that gives me joy without pain is Lady Violet - Maggie Smith is fantastic, and every line Julian gives her I am sobbing with laughter:
POOR LAVINIA.
BEDTIME NOW, maybe I can get to the weekend without thinking about either of these two TV life ruiners. whatever, probably not but i will try my hardest!
ETA: Guys, when I said I wanted discussion, I didn't want patronising attitudes towards other people's opinions. PLEASE BE POLITE. I have extra work over the next few days so thinking about what you've all said and responding to it all will be put off, but I haven't forgotten and I will be back, if you still feel like debating everything. Some interesting stuff being said, cheers everyone.