Wait...what?? Hmmmm....

May 16, 2007 13:15

So, I've been reading this book:


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ezurbub May 16 2007, 21:37:07 UTC
Ah, cool. I await your write-up...or you can just tell me all about it on Saturday. :)

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ezurbub May 17 2007, 02:02:44 UTC
Ah, cool...thanks. I'll add it to the list. This is a fascinating topic...I wasn't specifically interested in Japanese homosexuality per se, but I've come to understand that some of the "mysteries" of Japanese culture become a little less mysterious when one answers the question of why the modern idealized conception of the samurai bears little or no resemblance to the historical figure. From what I gather, there's a lot of important research happening right now in an attempt to map/fully deconstruct patterns of rampant idealization in Japanese culture in ways not limited to samurai culture...fascinating stuff (in fact, the book I'm ready, in its second edition, is very close to being an anthology of such works in progress.)

To what do you attribute your interest in the topic of Japanese homosexuality? ;)

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ezurbub May 18 2007, 19:08:22 UTC
Woah! Where'd my reply go? :( I was going to write something as a follow up, but...I can't! I guess I deleted it??? Weird.

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backburner May 18 2007, 09:10:22 UTC
As Americans, coming from a purposefully globally multicultural society, it's often difficult to really understand some of the cultural wariness (bordering on hatred) that even the younger Koreans and Chinese hold toward the Japanese. Looking at the cultural underpinnings compared to those other two societies, though, the reason becomes more clear.

It really disturbs the Chinese when Japan doesn't acknowledge the role it's culture played in its violent past because the impression remains that Japan can't fix the cause without admitting it first. And if the cause isn't fixed, they could revert to their past aggressions.

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ezurbub May 18 2007, 16:22:18 UTC
Looking at the cultural underpinnings compared to those other two societies, though, the reason becomes more clear.I'm not sure I follow, but it's worth mentioning that the Japanese, Chinese and Koreans were on more-or-less friendly terms from AD 500 to around the start of the Meiji Era in 1868, i.e., just after Westerners forced open Japan's borders (certainly Japan and China were buddies up to that point; relations were a little frosty between Japan and Korea, but still amiable overall.) The arrival of the west in numbers seems to mark the beginning of Japan's obsession with legitimacy on the world stage (in particular as the Meiji witnessed Japan's culture becoming increasingly marginalize as western ideas and philosophies came flooding in), which inevitably led to imperialist policies that were really more about staving off invasion than about satisfying colonial fantasies (not to sound like an apologist, of course.) I've got a book coming that is apparently the best written account of events before/during/after both the Sino- ( ... )

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backburner May 18 2007, 17:14:16 UTC
You have good points - just one example would be that there's a reason Japanese language still uses Kanji as one of its written forms. :-)

I believe, though, that China underwent rapid exposure to the West (Britain, France, Germany and Russia all had significant influence at various points) too, in a similar timeframe and it didn't turn against it's neighbors - it basically turned against itself. I'd also point out that when the most recent direct Western influence (well, at least for the pre-1989 era) in China pushed them to become expansionist and aggressive (USSR), China ended up destroying that alliance because they realized it wasn't really a good path to go down (among other reasons). I would think realizations like that are more a result of existing culture more than a newly imposed one. How a culture reacts to external influences is pretty important.

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ezurbub May 18 2007, 18:19:01 UTC
just one example would be that there's a reason Japanese language still uses Kanji as one of its written forms

I'm not sure I follow. At any rate, the Japanese and Koreans both used kanji as their written language from the beginning (there's still some controversy over whether it was Korean scholars who introduced kanji to the Japanese or Chinese aristocrats.) At any rate, both Korea and Japan eventually developed/expanded their own writing systems derived from kanji (and both cultures still use kanji, especially in advertising.)

China underwent rapid exposure to the West (Britain, France, Germany and Russia all had significant influence at various points) too, in a similar timeframe and it didn't turn against it's neighbors - it basically turned against itself.Leading up to the first Sino-Japanese war, the Qing Dynasty was crumbling and China was being picked apart by folks (mostly, of course, by Russia.) Meiji Japan, on the other hand, was prosperous and stable and obviously wanted to stay that way (native Japanese historians ( ... )

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