The Fight over a Word. or Why both sides of the Gay Marriage debate need to shut up

[faeboy81dc]

I'm gonna get a whole lot of flack over this but ohh well. I'm one of those crazy libertarians whose goes around thinking but ohh well. I'm gonna divide this into three parts me thinks. I'm not the best writer so please excuse me. It's gonna be rambling and some points jumpy and not always coherent. So thank you if you take the time to actually

Comments

[fr_defenestrato]

The following was a response to a much shorter version of your libertarian take on this issue, in response to one of my posts; but as you didn't get back to me there, I'll repost it here, and then move on a bit:

That said, it IS an important word, symbolically. Like many folks, I think the interests of fairness and equality outweigh libertarian considerations of what is and is not the gubmt's bidned. If California, or every state and the feds, decided tomorrow to withdraw the word 'marriage' from any and all legislation and let the churches and the civic groups have it, that' be great. But that's also not going to happen. So while straight people have claim to that word as well as the trappings and benefits it entails, queer people will not be content with just the trappings. As keeps getting bandied about, it's akin to Jim Crow: We're not saying black folk are any better or any worse than white folk! We're just saying keep 'em over there where they belong.As to the rest of your argument here, I first want to say I pointedly decline

[fr_defenestrato]

But having said all that, I don't understand why you and Fox News and so many pundits have seized on the huge national queer zeitgeist-which I find utterly imaginery-that BLAMES African Americans for passing Prop 8. Every serious commentary I have seen merely points out that the percentages of California blacks voting for 8 are way higher than other demographic groups, and wonders what can be done about that. At the march down the mall yesterday, I saw ZERO signs that included racial content of any kind. The only reference to race I heard all day was the chant, 'Gay/straight, black/white, marriage is a human right!'

On a personal level, I do have to admit that I spend an enormous amount of money on my own entertainment, on 'fabulous gay things' as it were, such as traveling to Chicago every May and New Orleans every August and Florida once every year or two. Maybe my personal moral compass does need adjusting; certainly there are better causes to be financed than my taking photos of public naughtiness.

And we're losing this Culture

[faeboy81dc]

Okay First thing is I don't blame African Americans for passing Prop 8. Neither is Prop 8 or the supposed black vote mentioned at all in my writing. You notice I say shut it to Right Wingers no matter what their skin tone. I mention blacks in the gay area because the fact that most rich white gays want to blame them for Prop 8 but don't try to look at their side of things. The only true group of people I blame for the passing of Prop 8 is the leaders of the Church of Mormon. Besides that I can't go to every individual that voted for it and wag my finger at them it's ridiculous

[fr_defenestrato]

Yeah, so, uh... I go 'blah blah blah' a lot. At some point you can just go 'So anyway' and move on. But I do like a good debate. :)

I wasn't trying to say you were claiming that black Californians were the reason Prop 8 passed; but what you said was this: 'We want to proclaim that Blacks should accept our struggle the same as theirs...' and that argument seemed to me to be a direct response to the debates that have been going on all over the 'net re the place of the black community in queer rights. I've seen so many people making fevered cries of racism, acting like there's some kind of extreme 'Aha! You uppity niggers got your rights and now we can't have ours, huh?' attitude going on. But I haven't seen any sentiments along those racist lines to warrant this backlash.

I'm sorry if this isn't where your hypocrisy argument was coming from. But that was your primary (or at least your first) point backing up your claim that gays are 'just as hypocritical' as rightwingers