You see, what I find most unfortunate is that people such as yourself don't look at the big picture in terms of ramifications.
My point will be a bit simplistic but still the point.
Ideally, I would like it if everyone could obtain health care. The reality though is when you socialize health care it will suffer much like any kind of socialization will. A lack of drive, a lack of wanting to push harder will occur in the medical field.
Talk to doctors and the like in the field. They are terrified of the new health care reform. Let's face it, not all doctors enter the health care field simply to help people. Many do it because it is a lucrative occupation. Those doctors who strive to do better thru competition will do better financially. If there is no incentive to work harder, the health care providers will get worse, and ultimately the people who need it will get worse care.
Don't get me wrong, I think there has to be something done.... but It needs to the right thing.
See, in many countries that DO have socialized healthcare, medical breakthroughs are happening! I mean france has one of the best systems in the world! Contrary to what bill oreilly say's. There are many health organizations that support obama. And doctors right now are getting more money to do more expensive, and unnecessary procedures, and that's not good. There is a love affair between doctors and HMO's and its a really unhealthy one for us.
Have you read pauls rant? I think he puts it better. I'll see if I can post it in a reply if you can't view his.
in the business world, that may work- the fact that profit drives people to do things.
but, there are a lot of new scientists (doctors) working on things for the sheer excitement of wanting to find a breakthrough! or find out how the world works, how the body works, how cancer works, etc. (or, if ones intent on selfish drives, to win a prize or something);
is healthcare really a field where individual profit should be the driving factor? even over scientific curiosity?
more so, this brings up another, deeper philosophical question: are humans purely selfish machines that can only be moved to better the world through making some paper money?
doctors, historically, have always made more money than the middle class person.... but, IMO, this is because of the specificity of their knowledge, not through some selfish desire they have to make money
( ... )
"obviously not from people who dont have much money...Yet these are the people who can, in effect, argue against their own place in society. they argue as if they are capitalists; while they are laborers with no considerable capital."
P.S.- obviously humans CAN be manipulated by their culture into loving money over everything else... but this is far from saying its human nature. just had to say that!
My point was more along the lines of... YES I agree that everyone deserves some sort of affordable healthcare. However, I don't believe the answer is necessarily to have the government take it over (or give a cheaper alternative). Both of those ideas just don't seem to be ideal to me.
My point is more along the lines of consequences. In a perfect world, everyone would get affordable healthcare and their wouldn't be ANY problems as a result. But that isn't being realistic because we live in an imperfect world.
"In a perfect world, everyone would get affordable healthcare and their wouldn't be ANY problems as a result. But that isn't being realistic because we live in an imperfect world."
Thats also impossible when healthcare is treated like free market. Profit driven. HMO's would never let that happen. And only a government alternative could ever give them enough competition to lower their prices.
You don't HAVE to take the government option. So I see no reason to appose it. The taxpayers already fit the bill when someone goes to the emergency room and doesn't pay. And that happens A LOT. It raises everyone's premiums.
Not everyone can afford the HMO's prices. Which is why many don't have healthcare.
I support the government option. Every other rich/"civilized" western country does the same. And their citizens have the option of paying for better insurance.
Most of the arguments against the government plan are due to assumption, fear, and Hysteria.
Comments 22
My point will be a bit simplistic but still the point.
Ideally, I would like it if everyone could obtain health care. The reality though is when you socialize health care it will suffer much like any kind of socialization will. A lack of drive, a lack of wanting to push harder will occur in the medical field.
Talk to doctors and the like in the field. They are terrified of the new health care reform. Let's face it, not all doctors enter the health care field simply to help people. Many do it because it is a lucrative occupation. Those doctors who strive to do better thru competition will do better financially. If there is no incentive to work harder, the health care providers will get worse, and ultimately the people who need it will get worse care.
Don't get me wrong, I think there has to be something done.... but It needs to the right thing.
Reply
Have you read pauls rant? I think he puts it better. I'll see if I can post it in a reply if you can't view his.
Reply
this isnt about maintaining capitalist ideologies of profit-driven human machines. its about healthcare! :)
Reply
( ... )
Reply
but, there are a lot of new scientists (doctors) working on things for the sheer excitement of wanting to find a breakthrough! or find out how the world works, how the body works, how cancer works, etc. (or, if ones intent on selfish drives, to win a prize or something);
is healthcare really a field where individual profit should be the driving factor? even over scientific curiosity?
more so, this brings up another, deeper philosophical question: are humans purely selfish machines that can only be moved to better the world through making some paper money?
Reply
Reply
THIS.
Reply
Reply
My point is more along the lines of consequences. In a perfect world, everyone would get affordable healthcare and their wouldn't be ANY problems as a result. But that isn't being realistic because we live in an imperfect world.
Reply
Thats also impossible when healthcare is treated like free market. Profit driven. HMO's would never let that happen. And only a government alternative could ever give them enough competition to lower their prices.
You don't HAVE to take the government option. So I see no reason to appose it. The taxpayers already fit the bill when someone goes to the emergency room and doesn't pay. And that happens A LOT. It raises everyone's premiums.
Not everyone can afford the HMO's prices. Which is why many don't have healthcare.
I support the government option. Every other rich/"civilized" western country does the same. And their citizens have the option of paying for better insurance.
Most of the arguments against the government plan are due to assumption, fear, and Hysteria.
Reply
( ... )
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment