i fought the daleks, and i am human. remember me.

[falling_voices]

Re: Asylum of the Daleks

er

well

that was a bloody mess of an episode, wasn't it?

Comments

[lethimsleep]

I have to stop halfway through and just say, God was I waiting for someone to say this. Everything you wrote about Amy and Rory. I have been trying to explain my thoughts to a friend of mine but I just couldn't make her understand, so I guess I'll just send her this, now.

You're brilliant.

[falling_voices]

It was difficult to put exactly into words, but I really was disappointed by their... relegation to a minor subplot, I guess? It's a big deal, a divorce, and issues like theirs don't just walk away because they talk about it for five minutes and realize that hey, they love each other so much they were ready to give up on each other! Which is sad, because I'm a sucker for that kind of trope, when it's fully fleshed-out and elaborated.

Let me know if the two of you come to an agreement, yeah?

♥

[lethimsleep]

We did reach an agreement! After we watched the episode together and I spent the entire thing yelling at her, and the screen.

My greatest issue with this episode was the divorce. It wasn't just a fight, what went down between them, they had reached the point of ending their relationship, legally. They had drawn papers. They were ending it. Amy had kicked Rory out of their house. It was big, what had happened, there was so much pain there, and then, somehow it was resolved in two tiny scenes? "Look, I love you, you love me, everything is forgotten?" I understand completely, after the two last seasons, how the Ponds' love can help them overcome anything, but I just don't get how this sudden solution is supposed to feel real to me. The Ponds love each other, so, so much, but that doesn't magically make their issues disappear, does it

[falling_voices]

Yeah, yup, I agree. A divorce, a divorce's a huge thing, and Moffat just handwaved it away with a but really they love each otherrrrr explanation - which, okay, fits in with his fairytale thematic he's been pursuing about their relationship throughout their story arc, but it's like. He's trying to keep them in stasis? in a kind of relationship that never is completely hatched, and whenever something happens to break the shell (this metaphor is going to get out of my hands at some point), he doesn't let them breathe the cold air outside before he tapes it all better so they're back into the cozy warmth of a fairytale ending. It worked wonderfully in S5 because that's what S5 was all about, but I would love to get to see what's after the happy ending, in all its ugliness and its beauty. This episode barely skimmed the surface, whyyy

[katty008]

^This. So, so much. Between Doctor Who and Elementary, I'm tempted to crawl into an anti-television bubble until Castle airs.

[falling_voices]

I haven't seen Elementary yet, but so far I've seen nothing but positive reactions? Then again I've been careful to avoid reading spoilery posts, so far, so what I've let myself see was mostly flailing incoherence - I'll get you back on that.

Here's to hoping the rest of DW will be worthwhile, though.

[katty008]

The "mystery" was terrible and full of holes, it falls into that bad cliche where they don't know how to write the detective clever enough so they make everyone else really stupid to compensate (fact: traces of blood in a boot print is sort of basic forensics, not something you should need a Sherlock Holmes to point out), and the way they dealt with asexuality was quite plainly insulting. "I find sex disgusting but hey it helps my mental faculties so I get it on with prostitutes sometimes, NEVERMIND I'm just really bitter about some woman back in London." I was so excited after the whole "Holmes and Watson won't have a relationship" thing, but then they made the whole thing about sex anyway. There's something just that much worse about having good expectations and being disappointed than having low expectations to begin with.

Also they named his dad Bill, which, really? Bill?

Doctor Who will get its shit together. I'm far less hopeful about Elementary.

[falling_voices]

Okay, I've actually gotten around to see it, and I - agree and disagree, I guess? My general reaction is a lot more positive than yours, mostly because I found Holmes and Watson pretty fantastic in and of themselves, and I don't really care much for the cop show or the case (which did have a few holes, but mostly held together, I thought - it's a shame they've decided not to adapt ACD's cases). The whole 'woman back in London' thing is well-worth the side-eye, but at this point it's necessary to remember two things, I think: this is Joan's assumption, which Holmes didn't confirm or deny either way, and Holmes lies. He lies throughout the episode. I don't think we can take anything he says at face value, at this point, especially not in such cases as sexuality or previous possible relationships

[kim47]

Amy and Rory's break-up and reconciliation, for one, was something I was very much looking forward to - I knew something like this was coming since some set photos came out a few months ago of rory carrying divorce papers, and Pond Life very much carried that point home - but I assumed it was going to be part of the greater story arc, not a one-episode issue that will (presumably) never be talked of again. It had such potential for angst and pining on both of their parts, and you guys know I adore this trope - the best friends or lovers being drawn apart by their differences, and coming to reconcile over time?

akjsdh I was really looking forward to it, too. I do love that trope and to be honest I find it so, so believable for these two, between the stuff they included explicitly (Amy's infertility because of what they did to her at Demon's Run), and the stuff they didn't. Like the way Amy says "Is it bad that I've missed this?" and the look on her face that says this is what she really loves, this running with the Doctor, however

[falling_voices]

Absolutely. I mean, the fact that Amy came out of Demon's Run traumatized by her experience is actually canon, and the show has done very little to focus on that aspect of her personality beyond her ruthless cruelty to Madame Kovarian in The Wedding. They could have gone a long way portraying her attempting to cope with that, and dealing with her issues with Rory and their respective insecurities - which I think are very much the same in the end, because they both fear being left behind by those they love.

There's something very close and personal to me in the way Amy chose to send Rory away because she was scared of being rejected first (because it's obvious that's what it's about, not about Rory's feelings towards biological children in the first place - I'm sure Rory would suggest adopting children, for that matter - this is about what Demon's Run did to Amy as a mother, not about Rory), and it could have been dealt with and presented to us in a way that would have felt credible and intelligent, rather than just being displaced

[veronamay]

... and this would be why I don't get overly excited about DW anymore. Especially episodes involving Moffat and women, and can we talk aout the absolute moronic stupidity that is "oh woe is me, we can't have kids OUR LIVES ARE MEANINGLESS" because hello. ADOPTION. DOES THAT RING A FUCKING BELL. I am so very, very over the antiquated idea that you MUST bear a child from your own body in order to have a "real family". Just, fuck that, okay.

Also, I would be really, really, really fucking happy to never see another Dalek episode. The fucking things keep popping up like whack-a-mole and now it's just boring.

Although I loved Oswin. Every witty, gorgeous, ridiculous bit of her.

[falling_voices]

Moffat has some really fucked-up views of what motherhood is and isn't, yeah.

And - I was just saying this to kim47 upthread, I don't think this is about actually raising children or having a family so much as it is about what Demon's Run did to Amy and to her capacity to relate to her child properly; the fact that she didn't know she was pregnant until she went into labor, spent a month in a military facility unable to see her child, saw her melt into goo in her very arms and later was unable to raise her until she was already a grown woman - all of that has traumatized her very deeply, understandably, and it's skewed her understanding of family more than it already was. And of course that's not going to be addressed in depth or realistically at all, oh no, this is Moffat. Christ.

Oswin was fabulous, though, I agree. She was brilliant, and I'm still holding onto the hope that she might somehow come back.