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Nov 27, 2013 22:56

Many conservatives are taking issue with the Pope Francis' latest statement Evangelii Gaudium/ Specifically, they take issue with the following excerpt:

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theweaselking November 28 2013, 19:58:51 UTC
the simple answers are also harsh and horrifying ones.

What's harsh and horrifying about a minimum income?

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farchivist December 1 2013, 14:49:31 UTC
Yeah, that's not my "simple answer". My first, most simple, most practical solution is "Are you an Obsolete? Then prepare for Delete!" What do unskilled laborers do in a society that has no need for unskilled laborers? Nothing, because they don't exist. You simply execute the unneeded surplus, just like you'd delete an obsolete computer program or throw a broken appliance. That's what you do with things that are no longer needed; you dispose of them.

That's the simple answer. And I find it harsh and horrifying.

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theweaselking December 1 2013, 16:17:18 UTC
That is a harsh and horrifying answer, but it's more "simplistic" than "simple" - after all, it neglects that in order for the current ecomony to function at all for the "haves" they must have a large supply of spenders on the lower rungs.

It is frankly better for the rich *and* poor for the poor to spend money.

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farchivist December 1 2013, 21:23:08 UTC
after all, it neglects that in order for the current ecomony to function at all for the "haves" they must have a large supply of spenders on the lower rungs.

Ah, but I consider that to be a completely separate problem. :)

It is frankly better for the rich *and* poor for the poor to spend money.

I don't disagree.

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jonathankorman November 30 2013, 14:14:12 UTC
This trend is coming for skilled labor, too. Document search and analysis tools are putting lawyers out of work; diagnostic software is going to start putting doctors out of work, too.

Even those of us who recognize the problem have a hard time thinking about solutions.

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farchivist December 1 2013, 14:50:51 UTC
This trend is coming for skilled labor, too.

Indeed. I am currently working on making myself redundant in my field. Kind of amusing, really.

Even those of us who recognize the problem have a hard time thinking about solutions.

*shrugs* It is certainly possible that there is no 'good' solution to implement.

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jonathankorman December 1 2013, 15:16:34 UTC
Yeah.

This is turning me into one of these universal guaranteed income crackpots, too.

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theweaselking December 1 2013, 16:22:20 UTC
Crackpot or not, I can't think of a better solution, and the objections to a minimum income are pretty much entirely self-righteous, moralistic, not borne out by evidence, and come from people whose track record of accurate prediction is very close to zero.

So, since existing steps towards minimum income have produced good results, people whose past predictions have come true predict that this will work (and people who say it won't work are all people who've been wrong on everything else, and whose reasoning doesn't hold follow, here), test implementations have produced good results that are consistent with the non-stupid-people's predictions, and nobody can think of a better solution? I see no reason to not try this one.

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