Yup, that's offensive all right
anonymous
November 10 2012, 01:02:18 UTC
I'd be bullshit too, Christa. Especially since I very much doubt most people will "get" the irony-they'll just take it at face value. And the only woman depicted is tied up? That's just wrong. Far better if you'd been the one punching the guy out. I can't believe they didn't clear it with you first. -Michelle Gagnon
Re: Yup, that's offensive all right
anonymous
November 14 2012, 05:10:08 UTC
"...I very much doubt most people will `get' the irony-they'll just take it at face value."
I think the cover's intended audience very much will (or did) get the irony. The program was never intended for mass circulation. Its target was attendees at a small conference, the majority of whom almost certainly know Christa and her work. Those people might well find the cover tasteless and offensive, but they almost certainly would regard it as ironic.
One lesson to be drawn from this? Be careful when you crack an in joke. In jokes have a way of breaking out.
Also, "face value" is a curiously imprecise expression to use in connection with this illustration. What do you think viewers will take at "face value": The imagery of Christa being threatened, or the characters' jokey, cartoonish expressions?
Re: Yup, that's offensive all rightfaustfataleNovember 14 2012, 05:33:56 UTC
Its not an "in joke" if I'm not in on the joke. And I'm actually more hurt by the fact that this was done by people who know me and my work, not less.
Also, just because a guy meant to be funny ot "ironic" doesn't make cracking a rape joke about a female acquaintence okay.
And, while no one thinks this represents an actual threat, it does represent a kind of creepy, thoughtless sexism that I find depressing. And this "not intended for mass circulation" claim is laughable in the age of the Internet.
When you are organizing a con, you are representing our genre to the public, not just having a guys night out with your best buds.
when looking at the cover as a whole i can see what the artist was going for. i can see that he was meaning to keep it light, ironic, and quirky. i can also see how you would find it offensive that you or any woman would be displayed in such a way, and being treated as an object despite the bad situation (is that a camera in his hand?)
i find it offensive myself with other reasons. being of mexican descent, i grow weary of seeing mesoamerican symbols being used as backdrops for sinister dealings. i could go on a rant about that, but i'll leave it at that, because i know most people don't have the depth of knowledge to discuss ancient mexican culture in a civilized way.
so yeah, it's offensive, and you have every right to raise your fist in anger.
Ironic visual humor, when done right, is wonderful. This... this wasn't done right. And when it's not done right, it does re-enforce every stereotype it was meant to lampoon. It's one of the reasons Dave Chapelle stopped doing his show - people thought the parodies were reality. So I do agree, it is a reinforcement.
It is, also, frankly, not that well done. The composition is wrong, the heads looked pasted onto different bodies... just not well executed. The amateurish work almost compounds everything. Quoth Tom Stoppard. "It could have been anything. A mute dwarf, standing by the road, pointing the way. But it had to be this..."
It would only be funny and ironic to people who know you or your work. But if it's meant to be seen beyond that, then yeah, I understand being unhappy.
I lean towards funny and ironic. I don't feel like it's reinforcing stereotype so much as commenting on common conceptions of the genre, commenting on the stereotype. Mind you, I don't feel it's condemning or endorsing the stereotype. You don't look like you're actually in any distress in the picture any more than there appears to be an actual fight in the foreground.
I'm not very familiar with modern noir literary fiction, this image seems more a comment on pre-1960 adventure serials or comics to me. Personally, I prefer story over social agenda and find the conscious injection of the latter inevitably overwhelms the former, even if I agree with the principle. If there had been a subversion of the stereotype, like you throwing fists and the guys tied up, I think the casual viewer would say, "Oh, this is a con about subverting stereotype." Though I guess if it had been drawn as a Johnny Guitar parody, you might get the same reaction
( ... )
Comments 63
-Michelle Gagnon
Reply
I think the cover's intended audience very much will (or did) get the irony. The program was never intended for mass circulation. Its target was attendees at a small conference, the majority of whom almost certainly know Christa and her work. Those people might well find the cover tasteless and offensive, but they almost certainly would regard it as ironic.
One lesson to be drawn from this? Be careful when you crack an in joke. In jokes have a way of breaking out.
Also, "face value" is a curiously imprecise expression to use in connection with this illustration. What do you think viewers will take at "face value": The imagery of Christa being threatened, or the characters' jokey, cartoonish expressions?
Peter
Reply
Also, just because a guy meant to be funny ot "ironic" doesn't make cracking a rape joke about a female acquaintence okay.
And, while no one thinks this represents an actual threat, it does represent a kind of creepy, thoughtless sexism that I find depressing. And this "not intended for mass circulation" claim is laughable in the age of the Internet.
When you are organizing a con, you are representing our genre to the public, not just having a guys night out with your best buds.
Reply
i find it offensive myself with other reasons. being of mexican descent, i grow weary of seeing mesoamerican symbols being used as backdrops for sinister dealings. i could go on a rant about that, but i'll leave it at that, because i know most people don't have the depth of knowledge to discuss ancient mexican culture in a civilized way.
so yeah, it's offensive, and you have every right to raise your fist in anger.
Reply
It is, also, frankly, not that well done. The composition is wrong, the heads looked pasted onto different bodies... just not well executed. The amateurish work almost compounds everything. Quoth Tom Stoppard. "It could have been anything. A mute dwarf, standing by the road, pointing the way. But it had to be this..."
Reply
Reply
Reply
I'm not very familiar with modern noir literary fiction, this image seems more a comment on pre-1960 adventure serials or comics to me. Personally, I prefer story over social agenda and find the conscious injection of the latter inevitably overwhelms the former, even if I agree with the principle. If there had been a subversion of the stereotype, like you throwing fists and the guys tied up, I think the casual viewer would say, "Oh, this is a con about subverting stereotype." Though I guess if it had been drawn as a Johnny Guitar parody, you might get the same reaction ( ... )
Reply
Leave a comment