This whole Sherlock thing sounds fascinating. I've read the books, but I haven't seen many movie versions, and none of the new series. Will check them out.
I also liked what you wrote about the Victorian masculinity, as shown in good old Rider Haggard, for instance. If I weren't so hellishly busy, I'd want to read it all, but I just know it will end up on my huge 'to-do' pile, staring at me reproachfully. But the intro sounded great.
I'm very pleased to hear you're not planning to leave the Potter-fandom anytime soon, though. The Old (and not so old) Ladies need you!
I love the way it is played straight with no allusions to the books, and the Holmes and Watson characters are beautifully written, complex characters tons of faults and problems.
One of the cleverest shows I've seen in quite a while. Of course, by saying that I've doomed it, but there you are.
I'd say I've been "pleasantly surprised" by Elementary, too. It's like two shows, laid on top of one another: a standard procedural (which I punctuate in my mind with the law and order boom-boom between scenes) and a character sketch for two overly characters who have been reframed by taking each to her or his lowest point, so that we can watch them rebuild.
Feather, no shame about enjoying Sherlock Holmes! I love him, too. For a moment I thought Joan might be gay (there was a bit of a hesitation when talked about her former significant other), which would have been THE BEST THING EVER, but still, lots of stories to tell about all the new shows, etc. M.
We'll let you have a little Sherlock fling, but then we expect you to come back to the HP old ladies in the end, hear?
I'm a total Holmes canon whore (mind-boggling sexism and imperialism and all). I started reading the stories as a kid, in this book we had, called "The Junior Sherlock Holmes" or something like that -- illustrated versions. Since then, I've watched various film versions, but the only ones I've liked have been the Jeremy Brett series; for me, he's the definitive Holmes.
Haven't seen Elementary yet, not being much of a Lucy Liu fan. The modern BBC version just pisses me off -- total race and gender fail. There's perhaps some excuse for such viewpoints in the original (or, if "excuse" is the wrong word, then at least I can understand how Doyle wasn't able to see outside his own cultural position. But there's no excuse for it in 2000-whatever.) Also, I don't think Cumberbatch's autistic Holmes (as he said in an interview someplace) makes any sense, since Holmes's entire "deductive" method depends on his being able
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I want to like the modern BBC version, because it is clever, but totally aside from the not-insignificant fail (and the funny thing is, canon Holmes, while a product of his time, was incredibly progressive on issues of race, gender, and class for his era), I just don't buy the relationships between any of the characters - for me, the writing renders them all quite plastic and superficial, simply a source for one-liners, and if you don't buy into a Holmes-Watson core relationship at the very least, the show really falls apart as a nasty mess. Plus, as you say, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pathologize Holmes the way they have, and strikes me as symptomatic of the modern rush to classify any introversion or obsession as Aspergers/autism. (Honestly, I like the show a bit more than it seems; it's because I think there's so much they did well that I seem to have so much to say on where I feel they fell short
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he more I think Edward Hardwicke is a largely unsung genius in that show Good point. Watson is hard to pull off, given his canon position as the sidekick who has to be the recipient of exposition. But he's not dim in canon, and I like when he's given some depth in film interpretations.
incredibly progressive on issues of race, gender, and class for his era "Incredibly" in the sense of "surprising," definitely. But not in the sense of "extremely." Despite fics like "The Yellow Face" and some strong female characters like Violet (don't remember her last name; from "Copper Beeches") and Irene Adler, I think the originals are still very problematic. Still, Doyle is an interesting man -- embodies the best and the worst of that type of upper-class male chivalry. I think he would have been fun to talk to (even about fairies /g/).
symptomatic of the modern rush to classify any introversion or obsession as Aspergers/autism. Yes! I see this a lot.
I want that Mrs. Hudson story. Start today, please.
Yes, the "progressive" values of canon Holmes certainly don't stand up to modern scrutiny; it's not a modern "incredibly", rather a contextually qualified one. But it is almost universally the case that Holmes sympathizes with, and has more praise for, the powerless rather than the powerful of his society, to the point of (mildly) perverting the course of justice in their favor. It can fairly be said that sort of upper-class male chivalry is a bit paternalistic, but he also takes it rather further than was common in his era; Holmes's attitudes are not, I think, conventional in his society, though certainly the product of his society. ("The Yellow Face", in particular, was edited by American publishers to make it more palatable to American readers - I'm not sure how late into the 20th century the edit stood, but I think quite some time. And, gosh, that story had such tremendous opportunity to go screechingly, unbearably off the rails... I heaved a sigh of relief when it didn't
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There's nothing like a fic exchange deadline to make other fandoms start to look inviting. Although I'm a monogamous fic writer, too (that made me giggle, by the way). I've never written anything other than HP, though this summer I got into (of all things) The Vampire Diaries. (I know, ridiculous!) But I haven't searched out any fic in that fandom. I did briefly entertain the idea of writing an HP/Trailer Park Boys crossover - um, which would obviously be crackfic.
But more to the subject of your post.... This so makes me want to read some Sherlock Holmes, which I don't think I've done since I was on the verge of pubescence. I think I was about 12 years old when I stayed up until 3am one school night reading The Hound of the Baskervilles. And it was in the middle of this huge storm, and I remember crawling under my covers and shaking like leaf in this delightful sort of terror. And I was so young, but I think I kind of got shippy with Watson/Miss Stapleton? I love Watson!!! Oh dear. You might be starting something here.
I'm becoming more and more tempted by Sherlock Holmes. After the BBC production, many of my friends have started delving deeper into it--and one of them started out a big fan of everything, including the books. She does a killer fem!Holmes from the BBC series, too. Also, Mrs Hudson ♥.
Yay for your Awesome Teacher's enthusiasm being catching! (And that is totes adorbs. I can't believe I just said that.) I've been keeping up on Elementary and have watched all the BBC Sherlock myself. I found a site that has most if not all of the Sherlock lit and I emailed the link to myself so I could search it later, which means I'm very tempted... But I have so much stuff to read and get involved with! Lists too long.
I tend to be fairly monogamous as a fic writer, and I don't think my long-term relationship with HP fandom is through, but you never know.Oh gods it's terrible that this sentence almost made me cry. I hope that somehow Sherlock defies your Monogamous Fannishness history and you find yourself falling into an enjoyable Polyamorous
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I also liked what you wrote about the Victorian masculinity, as shown in good old Rider Haggard, for instance. If I weren't so hellishly busy, I'd want to read it all, but I just know it will end up on my huge 'to-do' pile, staring at me reproachfully. But the intro sounded great.
I'm very pleased to hear you're not planning to leave the Potter-fandom anytime soon, though. The Old (and not so old) Ladies need you!
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I love the way it is played straight with no allusions to the books, and the Holmes and Watson characters are beautifully written, complex characters tons of faults and problems.
One of the cleverest shows I've seen in quite a while. Of course, by saying that I've doomed it, but there you are.
L
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Feather, no shame about enjoying Sherlock Holmes! I love him, too. For a moment I thought Joan might be gay (there was a bit of a hesitation when talked about her former significant other), which would have been THE BEST THING EVER, but still, lots of stories to tell about all the new shows, etc. M.
Reply
I'm a total Holmes canon whore (mind-boggling sexism and imperialism and all). I started reading the stories as a kid, in this book we had, called "The Junior Sherlock Holmes" or something like that -- illustrated versions. Since then, I've watched various film versions, but the only ones I've liked have been the Jeremy Brett series; for me, he's the definitive Holmes.
Haven't seen Elementary yet, not being much of a Lucy Liu fan. The modern BBC version just pisses me off -- total race and gender fail. There's perhaps some excuse for such viewpoints in the original (or, if "excuse" is the wrong word, then at least I can understand how Doyle wasn't able to see outside his own cultural position. But there's no excuse for it in 2000-whatever.) Also, I don't think Cumberbatch's autistic Holmes (as he said in an interview someplace) makes any sense, since Holmes's entire "deductive" method depends on his being able ( ... )
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Good point. Watson is hard to pull off, given his canon position as the sidekick who has to be the recipient of exposition. But he's not dim in canon, and I like when he's given some depth in film interpretations.
incredibly progressive on issues of race, gender, and class for his era
"Incredibly" in the sense of "surprising," definitely. But not in the sense of "extremely." Despite fics like "The Yellow Face" and some strong female characters like Violet (don't remember her last name; from "Copper Beeches") and Irene Adler, I think the originals are still very problematic. Still, Doyle is an interesting man -- embodies the best and the worst of that type of upper-class male chivalry. I think he would have been fun to talk to (even about fairies /g/).
symptomatic of the modern rush to classify any introversion or obsession as Aspergers/autism.
Yes! I see this a lot.
I want that Mrs. Hudson story. Start today, please.
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But more to the subject of your post.... This so makes me want to read some Sherlock Holmes, which I don't think I've done since I was on the verge of pubescence. I think I was about 12 years old when I stayed up until 3am one school night reading The Hound of the Baskervilles. And it was in the middle of this huge storm, and I remember crawling under my covers and shaking like leaf in this delightful sort of terror. And I was so young, but I think I kind of got shippy with Watson/Miss Stapleton? I love Watson!!! Oh dear. You might be starting something here.
Reply
Yay for your Awesome Teacher's enthusiasm being catching! (And that is totes adorbs. I can't believe I just said that.) I've been keeping up on Elementary and have watched all the BBC Sherlock myself. I found a site that has most if not all of the Sherlock lit and I emailed the link to myself so I could search it later, which means I'm very tempted... But I have so much stuff to read and get involved with! Lists too long.
I tend to be fairly monogamous as a fic writer, and I don't think my long-term relationship with HP fandom is through, but you never know.Oh gods it's terrible that this sentence almost made me cry. I hope that somehow Sherlock defies your Monogamous Fannishness history and you find yourself falling into an enjoyable Polyamorous ( ... )
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