Thoughts on Heaney and (my) being Irish

[felephant]

When Seamus Heaney died, I didn't quite know how to react. I had had to read his poems in school and I loved them then, but on the whole I'm insensitive to poetry, so picking up one of his collections to read in remembrance would have been a chore, and so have missed the point. So, as I was reading some epic poems at the time, I bought his

Comments

[ideealisme]

Yeah, England is not ignorable, that's for sure. There's a reason why poppy wearing is almost unheard of in the majority Catholic community, even though the Catholics are all lapsed.

I think it's nice, being able to see Ireland in that rosy light, not being utterly jaundiced. I've been here too long now and I'm corrupted myself by the resentment and internal bending of logic and emotion it takes to survive here; but I stayed for love, and he was worth it, so that's that :)

[felephant]

Well one of the reasons I left Ireland was because I had so many problems with it. It literally took me three years before I could see it in a fair light, and it took coming to England to come to love it.

"I stayed for love, and he was worth it, so that's that"

That sounds to me like a microcosm of life. :p

[johnny9fingers]

Being the child of an Irish emigre mother, culturally Catholic, and with a history of relatives on both sides of both Houses of Parliament, and an Irish family full of mad IRA bombers and a few West Brits too, all I can say is the thing is fucked-up beyond words to describe.

The Englishman in me sees Cromwell, for example, as necessary for curbing the powers of the monarchy and asserting the primacy of parliament: the Irish side, however...

The main problems I have with Ireland aren't however in England's historical shames any more. Abortion rights to save the mother seem rather prosaically normal where I come from. And my aunts would probably cross themselves furiously should I ever have said such a thing out loud. I have a female cousin who marched against liberalising the abortion laws even in cases where the mother's life was in danger. Ye gods

[felephant]

But surely when you're from London everywhere is unsophisticated?

But I see what you mean, and I'm sure there's a lot of truth to it (though I'll have to think on it). When I was in Dublin this last time, though, I was actually pretty surprised by how sophisticated, or city-like, or European, it's become. For instance: Beweley's is one of the most important landmarks in Dublin, a restaurant/café, and it's always done excellent coffee. (Also Wittgenstein's haunt for the few months he lived in Ireland.) But they've upped their game and when I was there recently my latte (which is still called a capuccino, in an adorable misunderstanding of foreign concepts) had a dragon painted into its milk! That's more virtuosic than you get even in the best coffee shops in London! Of course being a hipster is not quite being sophisticated; but it's not so distant either, if you think of sophistication not as a virtue but a way of appearing to embody that virtue.

[johnny9fingers]

I was last in Beweley's just before they closed down and were rescued, so this must be sometime in the mid '90's...ah, Joyce's Dublin has it's appeals, true.

That sort of decoration normally means that either you are known as a regular tipper, or the chap or lass who did it was, er, trying to attract your attention. Make of it what you will. :)

No, the thing should be the thing: of itself and in itself. The culture that built Yeats, or Joyce, or Wilde doesn't need reformation in the coffee making department: what it has to do is recognise some twenty-first century realities, to incorporate into its mythos and history of itself.

To an intellect much vaster and greater than ours, the Irish narrative will have reached an impasse until these things are dealt with: much as has the fundamentalist religious position ceased to reflect our best understanding of the mind of God.

[felephant]

Well incorporating twenty-first century realities into its mythos and history of itself is not itself sophistication, in the sense of genuinely being more subtle in thought and taste; the twenty-first century is no doubt plenty unsophisticated in plenty of ways, and pro-life people of course argue that sophistication is on their side here. (I take it you're referring to abortion (among other things) here, but forgive me if I've misunderstood you.) And on one thing I'll take their side: if sophistication is meant as something other than how I've defined it - if it just means the presentation of sophistication - then I won't hold it against anyone that they disdain it. (Nor would I hold it against anyone that they admire it.)

[ext_329966]

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/english/nael/beowulf/introbeowulf.htm... )

[felephant]

I'm sorry I didn't see this before now! I don't get notified of comments LJ considers suspicious. (Which is fair enough I guess: I get an awful lot of genuine spam, which I come upon all at once in browsing through old posts, and I'm glad I don't have to sort them out one by one.)

I've responded to a lot of what you say in our e-mail correspondence, so I won't repeat it here; I'll make some smaller points.

You say you couldn't make the joke about not talking to the staff, but that it's for reasons of humanism. But this is as may be. It is not a vicious joke just because it's not Irish; I'm not saying Irish people wouldn't make the joke because they're not vicious. But that particular sort of vice is not one that an Irish person could ever have, even if they were vicious in a host of terrible ways; even if they treated people inhumanly in other ways

[johnny9fingers]

Happy birthday. :)

May the coming year be full of joy and success for you.

[felephant]

Thanks very much man! I really appreciate that.