The Hayley Williams fiasco.
Hey, I'm new here.
I'm assuming most of you know about the Hayley Williams situation that occurred last night - she took a topless photo of herself and accidentally posted it on Twitter.
Today, I posted my opinion on the whole thing on tumblr:
While this topic is still kinda relevant, I’ma put my two cents in:
- At first, I was all like “GIRL WHY? You’re pretty and talented, we get it. Why are you resorting to this?” But then I realized she probably wanted to send it to her boyfriend by direct message on Twitter and accidentally posted it on Twitpic.
- Assuming what I’ve heard is true, she’s had sex with her boyfriend, meaning that at some point he must’ve seen her boobs. Does he really have that bad a memory that she had to send a picture to remind him what her boobs look like? :P Unless she meant to send it to someone else, which would make things interesting, perhaps.
- That being said, there are no legitimate excuses for girls (and guys!) out there to use to justify why they’re taking nudes. If you’re naturally pretty/attractive, people are gonna find you attractive with clothes on or off. The people who “need nudes” to assess just how attractive you are, are douchebags and you should cut off contact with them immediately because they’re not worth your time.
- This goes for everyone - yes, even if the sender is in a relationship with the receiver. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t out and out distrust your partner, but who knows? If you break up with that person, they could always use that picture against you. Ex-friends could do that as well. Who needs that? It could also potentially ruin job opportunities. (Nudity as art/modeling may be forgivable if you’ve done it in the past, but don’t take my word for it.)
- If you’re going to take nude pictures of yourself, do it for yourself. By this, I mean, take the picture you want, look at it, be satisfied or whatever, then delete it. If you so feel compelled to show a “cheeky” picture of yourself in the nude to a partner, uh, this might not always be possible, but if you can, try to take as close to the visiting day as possible if they do not live with you, and as soon as they see it, DELETE it from your camera. Or use a completely different camera if possible - one that you don’t use when you go out with your friends, or sight-seeing. What if your camera gets stolen, a la National Lampoon’s European Vacation? That would suck, right? Oh, and please please PLEASE don’t upload it to your computer. I don’t think I need to explain why.
- Getting to Hayley: No, I don’t believe the “hacker” excuse. A hacker would’ve kept the picture up on Twitter, not taken it down a minute later. And for all those pleading to stop spreading the picture around because she’s embarrassed? Yeah, I’m pretty sure she didn’t want the whole Internet knowing what her boobs look like, but then again, she should’ve thought twice about even taking the picture in the first place, considering the status of her fame (sure, she’s no Madonna or MJ, but her existence is fairly well-known). I’m sure plenty of people wanted to see nude pictures of her because she’s not an ugly girl - “normal” people and creeps alike, which should have made it all the more reason NOT to take a picture like that, knowing how easily this kind of stuff can happen. Besides, SHE was the one who uploaded the picture herself! She’s the one who embarrassed herself, and she has to accept the consequences of her mistake, good or bad. You can cry all you want, but I’m not going to sit here and defend stupidity.
- Another reason why this is scandalous is because, originally, Paramore was promoted as a Christian band, and Hayley herself is Christian. This goes against what she believes in, making herself sound hypocritical. I wouldn’t be surprised if she lost a lot of fans over that - it’s hard to separate the art from the person behind it, sometimes. She got a lot of new Twitter followers, though. Sex sells. (ETA 2: Though I didn’t like their new album, I do like Paramore’s previous albums, and I’m not going to stop listening to them because of this.)
- Okay, two last points: I personally haven’t seen too much of it, and that’s good, but apparently there’s still a lot of slut-shaming going on. All I heard of Hayley is that she got intimate with her current boyfriend while he was married. Both parties are at fault, but I don’t see how that makes her a slut. (I personally define “slut” as someone, a girl usually, who has sex with lots of people against her own desires and better judgement. Using this definition, I can’t confirm or deny that she is a “slut.” I don’t think all cheaters are “sluts” either, which people seem to subscribe to.) So, what I’m saying is that I find these claims unfounded.
- One last thing: Cut out the “she doesn’t have nice boobs” slander! Smaller boobs may not be your preference, but there’s nothing wrong with her body. I’m tired of hearing how curvy girls or whatever are “better” than skinny girls. Get over it, most of us can’t help what our body shape is. The key is whether or not we’re healthy. We’re all real women and we’re all beautiful. So, stop the crap, would you?
A girl I follow on tumblr (and who follows me back), posted this:
let me preface all of this by saying paramore is a really shitty band. now that this is out of the way:
obviously this was a big mistake and the poor girl meant to send the boobies to her boyfriend. cue the HAHAHA WHAT A DUMB BITCH on behalf of the internet, derision of her “small” and “unattractive” chest, accusations of hypocrisy because of her christian background, etc etc etc.
1. this is 2010. women and men send erotic texts/pictures/video/other forms of media to one another. is it inherently risky? yes. is it riskier if you’re famous? absolutely. do you deserve to be cruelly ridiculed for doing it? NO. I can almost guarantee that a huge percentage of these asshole commenters on ONTD calling her a “stupid bitch” (and god do I want to punch them for the use of that phrase) are hypocrites. I know very few people who have sustained romantic relationships in the 21st century and not, at some point, shared a racy photograph or two. to do so may not be the greatest idea if you intend on protecting your privacy or future career options, but it is far from abnormal or worthy of this kind of hateful shaming.
2. of course these photos, etc have the intention of remaining private. but you know what? sometimes, shit happens. you are not a disgusting, stupid, sex-crazed, insert-pejorative-of-your-choice human being because you sent (or intended to send) a picture of your tits to your boyfriend. I feel like I say this a lot but give me a fucking break. imagine how she feels about this. she’s undoubtedly embarrassed as it is, is kicking herself for making this mistake, and probably won’t make it again. and if I were reading what people were saying about it, I’d be in tears! have some goddamn empathy, people; don’t mimic psychopaths.
3. all this public, cruel, unnecessary ridicule is just another form of - you guessed it - slut-shaming. punishing a woman for not being careful or covert enough with the expression of her sexuality, rather than saying, “hey, those are some nice boobs, OK, gonna move on with my life now.” what’s particularly ironic is the array of “hey, she was really stupid to do this, but don’t make fun of her body!” sorts of comments. how about you quit calling her stupid for making a mistake, which in the grand scheme of things is really NOT A BIG DEAL (it’s nakedness, we all get naked sometimes, who cares), because otherwise that sentence is a load of hypocrisy. insulting her body isn’t OK, but insulting her character or intelligence over something this infinitesimal is? what kind of feminist are you?
4. the worst thing you could possibly accuse this young lady of being is dishonest in the image she portrays to her fans. by that I mean the puritan, no-sex-before-marriage nonsense spewed out by religious folks that Paramore has taken care to project. it’s the most unrealistic thing to expect of a young person on the planet - we are absolutely, positively engineered to be sexual, especially at that age. and while there is no doubt in my mind that part of that image is pushed by her management in the hopes of appealing to a mostly christian nation, I’m sure part of her believes it too. it’s gotta suck to be raised with the notion that sex out of wedlock is bad and dirty while every cell in your body is screaming, “god damn it, I want to have sex with my boyfriend and send him dirty pictures!” and while part of me wants to fault her for that hypocrisy, the rational part of me realizes that being put in that spot can’t be easy. the drive to be sexual is normal, expected, and VERY hard to ignore, regardless of any upbringing or indoctrination that tells you otherwise. she’s not a hypocrite so much as she is an entirely normal young woman who had the misfortune of being raised with bullshit values that are near impossible to live up to.
5. so, in closing, all of you SHUT YOUR TRAPS unless you have something nice or consoling to say to this chick. don’t go ranting about body acceptance and sexuality acceptance and then mouth off about how a perfectly normal girl with a perfectly normal sex drive is dumb and whorish, etc. grow up please
What stood out to me the most (and what's most relevant to this community) was this part:
3. all this public, cruel, unnecessary ridicule is just another form of - you guessed it - slut-shaming. punishing a woman for not being careful or covert enough with the expression of her sexuality, rather than saying, “hey, those are some nice boobs, OK, gonna move on with my life now.” what’s particularly ironic is the array of “hey, she was really stupid to do this, but don’t make fun of her body!” sorts of comments. how about you quit calling her stupid for making a mistake, which in the grand scheme of things is really NOT A BIG DEAL (it’s nakedness, we all get naked sometimes, who cares), because otherwise that sentence is a load of hypocrisy. insulting her body isn’t OK, but insulting her character or intelligence over something this infinitesimal is? what kind of feminist are you?
What I'm asking is, is she right and I'm wrong? Is there a right and wrong answer? I don't know. I think she probably is more schooled in feminism than I - I'm admittedly less educated than most, which is what prompted me to join this community. Compared to her views, mine are more conservative - that's obvious, I think.
Anybody want to shine a light on this? I've read her argument multiple times and I'm beginning to think she has a point. This is her tumblr: http://posthumanism.tumblr.com/
(BTW, I debated posting this in wtf_sexism, but I realized that we're really not comparing the reactions to male vs. female nudity here.)
I'm assuming most of you know about the Hayley Williams situation that occurred last night - she took a topless photo of herself and accidentally posted it on Twitter.
Today, I posted my opinion on the whole thing on tumblr:
While this topic is still kinda relevant, I’ma put my two cents in:
- At first, I was all like “GIRL WHY? You’re pretty and talented, we get it. Why are you resorting to this?” But then I realized she probably wanted to send it to her boyfriend by direct message on Twitter and accidentally posted it on Twitpic.
- Assuming what I’ve heard is true, she’s had sex with her boyfriend, meaning that at some point he must’ve seen her boobs. Does he really have that bad a memory that she had to send a picture to remind him what her boobs look like? :P Unless she meant to send it to someone else, which would make things interesting, perhaps.
- That being said, there are no legitimate excuses for girls (and guys!) out there to use to justify why they’re taking nudes. If you’re naturally pretty/attractive, people are gonna find you attractive with clothes on or off. The people who “need nudes” to assess just how attractive you are, are douchebags and you should cut off contact with them immediately because they’re not worth your time.
- This goes for everyone - yes, even if the sender is in a relationship with the receiver. I’m not saying that you shouldn’t out and out distrust your partner, but who knows? If you break up with that person, they could always use that picture against you. Ex-friends could do that as well. Who needs that? It could also potentially ruin job opportunities. (Nudity as art/modeling may be forgivable if you’ve done it in the past, but don’t take my word for it.)
- If you’re going to take nude pictures of yourself, do it for yourself. By this, I mean, take the picture you want, look at it, be satisfied or whatever, then delete it. If you so feel compelled to show a “cheeky” picture of yourself in the nude to a partner, uh, this might not always be possible, but if you can, try to take as close to the visiting day as possible if they do not live with you, and as soon as they see it, DELETE it from your camera. Or use a completely different camera if possible - one that you don’t use when you go out with your friends, or sight-seeing. What if your camera gets stolen, a la National Lampoon’s European Vacation? That would suck, right? Oh, and please please PLEASE don’t upload it to your computer. I don’t think I need to explain why.
- Getting to Hayley: No, I don’t believe the “hacker” excuse. A hacker would’ve kept the picture up on Twitter, not taken it down a minute later. And for all those pleading to stop spreading the picture around because she’s embarrassed? Yeah, I’m pretty sure she didn’t want the whole Internet knowing what her boobs look like, but then again, she should’ve thought twice about even taking the picture in the first place, considering the status of her fame (sure, she’s no Madonna or MJ, but her existence is fairly well-known). I’m sure plenty of people wanted to see nude pictures of her because she’s not an ugly girl - “normal” people and creeps alike, which should have made it all the more reason NOT to take a picture like that, knowing how easily this kind of stuff can happen. Besides, SHE was the one who uploaded the picture herself! She’s the one who embarrassed herself, and she has to accept the consequences of her mistake, good or bad. You can cry all you want, but I’m not going to sit here and defend stupidity.
- Another reason why this is scandalous is because, originally, Paramore was promoted as a Christian band, and Hayley herself is Christian. This goes against what she believes in, making herself sound hypocritical. I wouldn’t be surprised if she lost a lot of fans over that - it’s hard to separate the art from the person behind it, sometimes. She got a lot of new Twitter followers, though. Sex sells. (ETA 2: Though I didn’t like their new album, I do like Paramore’s previous albums, and I’m not going to stop listening to them because of this.)
- Okay, two last points: I personally haven’t seen too much of it, and that’s good, but apparently there’s still a lot of slut-shaming going on. All I heard of Hayley is that she got intimate with her current boyfriend while he was married. Both parties are at fault, but I don’t see how that makes her a slut. (I personally define “slut” as someone, a girl usually, who has sex with lots of people against her own desires and better judgement. Using this definition, I can’t confirm or deny that she is a “slut.” I don’t think all cheaters are “sluts” either, which people seem to subscribe to.) So, what I’m saying is that I find these claims unfounded.
- One last thing: Cut out the “she doesn’t have nice boobs” slander! Smaller boobs may not be your preference, but there’s nothing wrong with her body. I’m tired of hearing how curvy girls or whatever are “better” than skinny girls. Get over it, most of us can’t help what our body shape is. The key is whether or not we’re healthy. We’re all real women and we’re all beautiful. So, stop the crap, would you?
A girl I follow on tumblr (and who follows me back), posted this:
let me preface all of this by saying paramore is a really shitty band. now that this is out of the way:
obviously this was a big mistake and the poor girl meant to send the boobies to her boyfriend. cue the HAHAHA WHAT A DUMB BITCH on behalf of the internet, derision of her “small” and “unattractive” chest, accusations of hypocrisy because of her christian background, etc etc etc.
1. this is 2010. women and men send erotic texts/pictures/video/other forms of media to one another. is it inherently risky? yes. is it riskier if you’re famous? absolutely. do you deserve to be cruelly ridiculed for doing it? NO. I can almost guarantee that a huge percentage of these asshole commenters on ONTD calling her a “stupid bitch” (and god do I want to punch them for the use of that phrase) are hypocrites. I know very few people who have sustained romantic relationships in the 21st century and not, at some point, shared a racy photograph or two. to do so may not be the greatest idea if you intend on protecting your privacy or future career options, but it is far from abnormal or worthy of this kind of hateful shaming.
2. of course these photos, etc have the intention of remaining private. but you know what? sometimes, shit happens. you are not a disgusting, stupid, sex-crazed, insert-pejorative-of-your-choice human being because you sent (or intended to send) a picture of your tits to your boyfriend. I feel like I say this a lot but give me a fucking break. imagine how she feels about this. she’s undoubtedly embarrassed as it is, is kicking herself for making this mistake, and probably won’t make it again. and if I were reading what people were saying about it, I’d be in tears! have some goddamn empathy, people; don’t mimic psychopaths.
3. all this public, cruel, unnecessary ridicule is just another form of - you guessed it - slut-shaming. punishing a woman for not being careful or covert enough with the expression of her sexuality, rather than saying, “hey, those are some nice boobs, OK, gonna move on with my life now.” what’s particularly ironic is the array of “hey, she was really stupid to do this, but don’t make fun of her body!” sorts of comments. how about you quit calling her stupid for making a mistake, which in the grand scheme of things is really NOT A BIG DEAL (it’s nakedness, we all get naked sometimes, who cares), because otherwise that sentence is a load of hypocrisy. insulting her body isn’t OK, but insulting her character or intelligence over something this infinitesimal is? what kind of feminist are you?
4. the worst thing you could possibly accuse this young lady of being is dishonest in the image she portrays to her fans. by that I mean the puritan, no-sex-before-marriage nonsense spewed out by religious folks that Paramore has taken care to project. it’s the most unrealistic thing to expect of a young person on the planet - we are absolutely, positively engineered to be sexual, especially at that age. and while there is no doubt in my mind that part of that image is pushed by her management in the hopes of appealing to a mostly christian nation, I’m sure part of her believes it too. it’s gotta suck to be raised with the notion that sex out of wedlock is bad and dirty while every cell in your body is screaming, “god damn it, I want to have sex with my boyfriend and send him dirty pictures!” and while part of me wants to fault her for that hypocrisy, the rational part of me realizes that being put in that spot can’t be easy. the drive to be sexual is normal, expected, and VERY hard to ignore, regardless of any upbringing or indoctrination that tells you otherwise. she’s not a hypocrite so much as she is an entirely normal young woman who had the misfortune of being raised with bullshit values that are near impossible to live up to.
5. so, in closing, all of you SHUT YOUR TRAPS unless you have something nice or consoling to say to this chick. don’t go ranting about body acceptance and sexuality acceptance and then mouth off about how a perfectly normal girl with a perfectly normal sex drive is dumb and whorish, etc. grow up please
What stood out to me the most (and what's most relevant to this community) was this part:
3. all this public, cruel, unnecessary ridicule is just another form of - you guessed it - slut-shaming. punishing a woman for not being careful or covert enough with the expression of her sexuality, rather than saying, “hey, those are some nice boobs, OK, gonna move on with my life now.” what’s particularly ironic is the array of “hey, she was really stupid to do this, but don’t make fun of her body!” sorts of comments. how about you quit calling her stupid for making a mistake, which in the grand scheme of things is really NOT A BIG DEAL (it’s nakedness, we all get naked sometimes, who cares), because otherwise that sentence is a load of hypocrisy. insulting her body isn’t OK, but insulting her character or intelligence over something this infinitesimal is? what kind of feminist are you?
What I'm asking is, is she right and I'm wrong? Is there a right and wrong answer? I don't know. I think she probably is more schooled in feminism than I - I'm admittedly less educated than most, which is what prompted me to join this community. Compared to her views, mine are more conservative - that's obvious, I think.
Anybody want to shine a light on this? I've read her argument multiple times and I'm beginning to think she has a point. This is her tumblr: http://posthumanism.tumblr.com/
(BTW, I debated posting this in wtf_sexism, but I realized that we're really not comparing the reactions to male vs. female nudity here.)