This was interesting.
I had a rather in depth debate with jay's friend Eric over Skype just now over the government and health care. It's a bit long, but you might find it interesting. I think I did an ok job, though I admit I am not completely versed in Obama's Health plan intentions.
[12/15/2008 11:36:51 PM] Jay says: it will be like Canada
[12/15/2008 11:36:57 PM] Jay says: if you are too old
[12/15/2008 11:36:58 PM] Jay says: sorry
[12/15/2008 11:37:07 PM] Jay says: we arent gonna waste the effort on you
[12/15/2008 11:37:12 PM] Jay says: go home and die
[12/15/2008 11:37:27 PM] Jay says: or at least that the way it has been explained to me
[12/15/2008 11:37:34 PM] Jay says: and I cant really go off what I hear
[12/15/2008 11:37:47 PM] Jay says: i do need to do my own research on that one before I
go off on a wild tangent
[12/15/2008 11:37:53 PM] Aric says: actually the system there isnt that bad, but i think we should borrow from skandinavia's Health system.
[12/15/2008 11:38:37 PM] Jayr says: I think we should leave it alone and let people who want something work for it
[12/15/2008 11:38:47 PM] Jay says: b/c thats what Ive always done
[12/15/2008 11:38:48 PM] Aric says: We learned about alot of different health systems in my medical sociology class this semester. The US is the ONLY first world country that doesnt have a national Health care system in place
[12/15/2008 11:39:22 PM] Jay says: i dont see why everyone should have the save perks as me when I work my ass off and they sit at home and watch tv all day and collect food stamps
[12/15/2008 11:39:35 PM] Jay says: sorry...I know its mean...but, that's just the way I see it
[12/15/2008 11:40:13 PM] Jay says: now if you work....hell yes...you should have insurance...I do agree with that
[12/15/2008 11:40:35 PM] Jay says: but i dont want all the welfare moochers getting everything top notch like me when they just drain the system anyways
[12/15/2008 11:40:42 PM] Aric says: I just dont like that the US spends the most money on health care but is raanked relativly low in health and life expectancy compared to other countries comparative to it.
[12/15/2008 11:41:02 PM] Aric says: we throw money away and the system is so wastfull as it is
[12/15/2008 11:41:34 PM] Jay says: that's b/c we have more people than most countries as well
[12/15/2008 11:41:39 PM] Jay says: and they only take an average
[12/15/2008 11:41:46 PM] Jay says: they kick out the highs and the lows
[12/15/2008 11:41:48 PM] Aric says: I mean we spend more money per person
[12/15/2008 11:42:06 PM] Jay says: and you think it will fall when we get this "universal" plan???
[12/15/2008 11:42:07 PM] Jay says: hahaha
[12/15/2008 11:42:14 PM] Jay says: you have to be kidding me
[12/15/2008 11:42:48 PM] Aric Cannon says: I am totally for Physicians being government employees and doctors getting payed by the hour, not the patient.
[12/15/2008 11:43:25 PM] Aric says: price gouging would stop and doctors couldnt create there own "demand"
[12/15/2008 11:43:39 PM] Jay says: then who would want to be a doctor??
[12/15/2008 11:44:06 PM] Aric Cannon says: Plenty of people, I'm not saying they wouldnt be paid well.
[12/15/2008 11:44:39 PM] Jay says: what's "well"
[12/15/2008 11:44:46 PM] Jay says: well to me is different than it is to you
[12/15/2008 11:44:55 PM] Aric says: So yes, I think a universal health plan would be wonderful
[12/15/2008 11:45:08 PM] Jay says: and no, I think it would suck
[12/15/2008 11:45:08 PM] Jay says: haha
[12/15/2008 11:45:11 PM] Aric says: are you planning on being a doctor?
[12/15/2008 11:45:16 PM] Jay says: no
[12/15/2008 11:45:18 PM] Aric says: ok then
[12/15/2008 11:45:24 PM] Jay says: ok then what?
[12/15/2008 11:45:36 PM] Aric says: what do you care what doctors get paid?
[12/15/2008 11:45:55 PM] Jay says: we really have no right to decide what any person should make
[12/15/2008 11:46:20 PM] Jay says: I just believe in working for what I want
[12/15/2008 11:46:45 PM] Aric says: Sadly,controlled wages is the building block of capitalism.
[12/15/2008 11:46:47 PM] Jay says: and the more you work, the more you make, the better you become at what you do and have the knowledge to do more
[12/15/2008 11:47:07 PM] Jay says: no one controls how much I make
[12/15/2008 11:47:12 PM] Jay says: well AT&T
[12/15/2008 11:47:13 PM] Jay says: does
[12/15/2008 11:47:23 PM] Aric says: exactly
[12/15/2008 11:47:31 PM] Jay says: but if I prove myself I can move up and make more
[12/15/2008 11:47:31 PM] Aric says: they put a value on what ur worth to them
[12/15/2008 11:47:32 PM] Jay says: that was my point
[12/15/2008 11:47:45 PM] Jay says: everything has a value
[12/15/2008 11:48:03 PM] Jay says: if nothing had a value what good would it be to anyone?
[12/15/2008 11:48:05 PM] Aric says: I assume you mean monetary value?
[12/15/2008 11:48:13 PM] Jay says: well yes
[12/15/2008 11:48:32 PM] Aric says: *sigh* I dont agree with that at all
[12/15/2008 11:48:54 PM] Jay says: that was my point about who would want to be a doctor when you know that no matter how many years you worked or skills you aquired you would only make "x" amount of dollars
[12/15/2008 11:49:56 PM] Jay says: I mean...why did you go to school?
[12/15/2008 11:50:07 PM] Aric says: I'm not saying that at all, you would still get an increase wage as a doctor based on experience and speciality, you would just get paid by the hour, not the patient. So doctors wouldnt be flying through patients treating them like numbers the way they do now.
[12/15/2008 11:50:09 PM] Jay says: to eventally make more money in the field you want to work in right?
[12/15/2008 11:50:52 PM] Aric says: And American doctors work more hours than in any country, even Japan
[12/15/2008 11:51:07 PM] Jay says: so...instead of waiting at the doctors office for hours like you do now b/c they are seeing a bazillion patients you would sit for hours b/c they didnt give a shit b/c they get paid anyway
[12/15/2008 11:51:58 PM] Aric says: I would hope someone that has my life in thier hands would give a shit, otherwise why would they becom a pysician in the first place? It's not like its easy
[12/15/2008 11:53:46 PM] Jay says: truthfully dear...you will find that most people dont give a shit
[12/15/2008 11:54:02 PM] Jay says: that's a lesson you will learn throughout life
[12/15/2008 11:54:14 PM] Jay says: you will find the ones that do...dont get me wrong
[12/15/2008 11:54:22 PM] Jay says: but the majority of people....dont
[12/15/2008 11:55:22 PM] Aric says: I would have to disagree with you. I think most Americans don't give a shit, true. But thats because we are the pampered rich kids of the world.
[12/15/2008 11:55:53 PM] Jay says: I am in no way pampered...and if I am...I did it myself by working my ass off
[12/15/2008 11:56:18 PM] Jay says: and yes...we as americans have more privledges that most others
[12/15/2008 11:56:23 PM] Jay says: that I know
[12/15/2008 11:56:30 PM] Jay says: but here in america you have to make your own way
[12/15/2008 11:56:37 PM] Jay says: that's what america was about
[12/15/2008 11:57:02 PM] Jay says: everyone coming to a place where they could make their own way
[12/15/2008 11:57:19 PM] Jay says: and now...our wonderful government wants to tell us what to do at every turn
[12/15/2008 11:57:23 PM] Aric says: Your missing the point I think. What is a government for?
[12/15/2008 11:57:37 PM] Jay says: to govern....but there are levels
[12/15/2008 11:57:47 PM] Jay says: and ours...is getting out of control
[12/15/2008 11:58:00 PM] Jay says: we have no checks and balances
[12/15/2008 11:58:04 PM] Jay says: they are outta whack
[12/15/2008 11:58:06 PM] Aric says: thats vague, a government is supose to, first and formost, protect its people correct?
[12/15/2008 11:58:14 PM] Jay says: NO
[12/15/2008 11:58:38 PM] Jay says: it clearly states in the constitution that we have the right to bear arms against our government
[12/15/2008 11:58:40 PM] Aric says: Oh and i agree with you, our gov. is compleatly out of controll
[12/15/2008 11:59:04 PM] Aric says: And yes i agree with that as well, the gov. should fear its people, not the other way around
[12/15/2008 11:59:12 PM] Jay says: therefore, they knew when writing the const that this would eventually happen
[12/15/2008 11:59:38 PM] Jay says: but when you elect elitist into office, what else can you expect
[12/15/2008 11:59:55 PM] Aric says: *sigh* so your saying you wanted McCain?
[12:00:21 AM] Aric says: oh, or do you mean in general?
[12:00:21 AM] Jay says: not that Im into the "good old boy" program either
[12:00:28 AM] Jay says: Obama will be a nightmare
[12:00:33 AM] Aric says: I think not
[12:00:40 AM] Jay says: as most people do
[12:00:47 AM] Jay says: b/c he promises "change"
[12:00:56 AM] Jay says: change isnt always good you know
[12:01:37 AM] Aric says: blah, I hate catch phrases. Anyway, the way i see it one of 2 things will happen
[12:02:28 AM] Jay says: haha I can tell you what will happen, our economy will fall and we will be forced into world goverment and there will no longer be a USA
[12:02:33 AM] Aric says: 1) Obama will be wonderful and things will at least start in the right direct (though thinking things will change overnight is just stupid)
[12:02:56 AM] Jay says: due to elitist such as Hillary
[12:03:24 AM] Jay says: I had hoped that Obama would stay away from the Clintons...but that didnt pan out
[12:03:52 AM] Jay says: I mean..hell his health care plan failed horridly
[12:03:59 AM] Aric says: or 2) The US gov. will royally fuck things up and people will eventually see that once things hit rock bottom, there is something seriously wrong, and the government will have a seriouse overhall. And ur right, maybe the US as it is today wont exsist, but I could only hope it would be something better.
[12:04:02 AM] Jay says: and who was the brains behind that? HILLARY
[12:04:22 AM] Aric says: Actually, clintons Health care plan never went through
[12:04:31 AM] Jay says: yes, I know
[12:04:36 AM] Jay says: however.....
[12:04:53 AM] Jay says: the reason i didnt go through was b/c of all the BS it entailed
[12:05:50 AM] Aric says: What fucked that up was that the insurance companies and stuff changed thier policies with the expectation that it WOULD go through, but when it didn't, the policies remained the same, and basically screwed everyone over
[12:06:33 AM] Aric says: By remained the same I mean, didnt change back to the old policies
[12:06:38 AM] Jay says: THAT is the problem
[12:06:43 AM] Aric says: exactly
[12:06:51 AM] Aric says: the insurance system is fucked over
[12:06:57 AM] Aric says: so we need a new system
[12:06:58 AM] Jay says: the insurance companies and the pharm companies
[12:07:03 AM] Aric says: *nods*
[12:07:21 AM] Jay says: its not the healthcare
[12:07:31 AM] Jay says: its not the providers
[12:07:37 AM] Jay says: its the suppliers
[12:07:50 AM] Jay says: b/c medicine is fucking cheap to make
[12:07:59 AM] Jay says: and expensive as hell to buy
[12:08:18 AM] Jay says: and insurnace companies are all about money
[12:08:26 AM] Jay says: I mean....it doesnt matter what insurance
[12:08:39 AM] Aric says: Yes, but you cant seperate the two really. I'm saying make the government BE the supplier, eliminate (or at least reduce) private insurance companies and make the gov. pay for it. Hence doctors being government employees.
[12:08:42 AM] Jay says: the actual idea of insurance is good...but in the long run its wasted money
[12:09:13 AM] Jay says: I think there should be some regulation
[12:09:16 AM] Jay says: but not just for doctors
[12:09:37 AM] Jay says: the insurnace companines and definately the pharm companies
[12:09:44 AM] Aric says: well sure, The government should never have total control, that would be asking for trouble
[12:10:23 AM] Jay says: but that's what everyone voted for
[12:10:29 AM] Jay says: obama total control plan
[12:10:33 AM] Jay says: yeah yeah
[12:10:40 AM] Jay says: he said you can keep what you have
[12:10:57 AM] Jay says: but really.....there would be some loophole somewhere
[12:11:09 AM] Jay says: and you would eventually have to switch
[12:11:32 AM] Aric says: I'm confused, what part of obama's health plan do you not like?
[12:12:42 AM] Jay says: I dont like government stepping in and fucking with things when they cant even balance thier own sheet
[12:12:48 AM] Jay says: thats the issue I have
[12:12:50 AM] Aric says: As long as the option for private insurance still exists, I dont think things would get out of hand. Obama just believes that the government should be taking care of its peoples health, and it should.
[12:13:01 AM] Jay says: why?
[12:13:36 AM] Jay says: its not the governments responsibility to keep you or me or anyone else up
[12:14:13 AM] Jay says: protection is different than longevity of life
[12:14:40 AM] Aric says: Why?! Why not? Having a country full of sick, homeless people doesnt do anyone any good. And people should look out for each other naturally, its called having a heart. If it is possible to affordibly save people from suffering, why wouldn't you?
[12:15:17 AM] Jay says: bc I cant save the world
[12:15:21 AM] Jay says: and the USA cant either
[12:15:31 AM] Aric says: Someone has to try
[12:15:50 AM] Aric says: or at the very least, not make the situation worse
[12:16:26 AM] Jay says: so when we "try" this and fail horribly are you going to be one of the people who stay and try to work it out with your country or will you run away to another country like all the other silly people plan on doing?
[12:16:51 AM] Jay says: b/c if you want to run away
[12:17:06 AM] Jay says: then you are no better than the people we have trying to run our government anyway
[12:17:12 AM] Aric says: I'll go (or stay) where i can be the most helpful, I can only do what I feel is right.
[12:17:33 AM] Jay says: so in the end it will boil down to "your" needs
[12:17:38 AM] Jay says: not everyone elses
[12:18:53 AM] Aric says: hmmmm, on one level yes. But by making things better for my self, i would (hopefully) be making things better for others as well, but that is all a matter of perspective
[12:26:45 AM] Jay says: ok whore
[12:26:47 AM] Jay says: Im right
[12:26:49 AM] Jay says: you right
[12:26:52 AM] Jay says: so....
[12:26:53 AM] Jay says: yeah
[12:26:58 AM] Jay says: we will just see what happens
[12:27:16 AM] Jay says: I just want to be able to stand there and tell you that i told you so
[12:27:28 AM] Aric says: Lol, I hope you never get the chance
[12:27:32 AM] Jay says: but i cant do that when you have ran off to another country
[12:27:38 AM] Aric says: XD
[12:28:01 AM] Aric says: We will see
[12/15/2008 11:36:51 PM] Jay says: it will be like Canada
[12/15/2008 11:36:57 PM] Jay says: if you are too old
[12/15/2008 11:36:58 PM] Jay says: sorry
[12/15/2008 11:37:07 PM] Jay says: we arent gonna waste the effort on you
[12/15/2008 11:37:12 PM] Jay says: go home and die
[12/15/2008 11:37:27 PM] Jay says: or at least that the way it has been explained to me
[12/15/2008 11:37:34 PM] Jay says: and I cant really go off what I hear
[12/15/2008 11:37:47 PM] Jay says: i do need to do my own research on that one before I
go off on a wild tangent
[12/15/2008 11:37:53 PM] Aric says: actually the system there isnt that bad, but i think we should borrow from skandinavia's Health system.
[12/15/2008 11:38:37 PM] Jayr says: I think we should leave it alone and let people who want something work for it
[12/15/2008 11:38:47 PM] Jay says: b/c thats what Ive always done
[12/15/2008 11:38:48 PM] Aric says: We learned about alot of different health systems in my medical sociology class this semester. The US is the ONLY first world country that doesnt have a national Health care system in place
[12/15/2008 11:39:22 PM] Jay says: i dont see why everyone should have the save perks as me when I work my ass off and they sit at home and watch tv all day and collect food stamps
[12/15/2008 11:39:35 PM] Jay says: sorry...I know its mean...but, that's just the way I see it
[12/15/2008 11:40:13 PM] Jay says: now if you work....hell yes...you should have insurance...I do agree with that
[12/15/2008 11:40:35 PM] Jay says: but i dont want all the welfare moochers getting everything top notch like me when they just drain the system anyways
[12/15/2008 11:40:42 PM] Aric says: I just dont like that the US spends the most money on health care but is raanked relativly low in health and life expectancy compared to other countries comparative to it.
[12/15/2008 11:41:02 PM] Aric says: we throw money away and the system is so wastfull as it is
[12/15/2008 11:41:34 PM] Jay says: that's b/c we have more people than most countries as well
[12/15/2008 11:41:39 PM] Jay says: and they only take an average
[12/15/2008 11:41:46 PM] Jay says: they kick out the highs and the lows
[12/15/2008 11:41:48 PM] Aric says: I mean we spend more money per person
[12/15/2008 11:42:06 PM] Jay says: and you think it will fall when we get this "universal" plan???
[12/15/2008 11:42:07 PM] Jay says: hahaha
[12/15/2008 11:42:14 PM] Jay says: you have to be kidding me
[12/15/2008 11:42:48 PM] Aric Cannon says: I am totally for Physicians being government employees and doctors getting payed by the hour, not the patient.
[12/15/2008 11:43:25 PM] Aric says: price gouging would stop and doctors couldnt create there own "demand"
[12/15/2008 11:43:39 PM] Jay says: then who would want to be a doctor??
[12/15/2008 11:44:06 PM] Aric Cannon says: Plenty of people, I'm not saying they wouldnt be paid well.
[12/15/2008 11:44:39 PM] Jay says: what's "well"
[12/15/2008 11:44:46 PM] Jay says: well to me is different than it is to you
[12/15/2008 11:44:55 PM] Aric says: So yes, I think a universal health plan would be wonderful
[12/15/2008 11:45:08 PM] Jay says: and no, I think it would suck
[12/15/2008 11:45:08 PM] Jay says: haha
[12/15/2008 11:45:11 PM] Aric says: are you planning on being a doctor?
[12/15/2008 11:45:16 PM] Jay says: no
[12/15/2008 11:45:18 PM] Aric says: ok then
[12/15/2008 11:45:24 PM] Jay says: ok then what?
[12/15/2008 11:45:36 PM] Aric says: what do you care what doctors get paid?
[12/15/2008 11:45:55 PM] Jay says: we really have no right to decide what any person should make
[12/15/2008 11:46:20 PM] Jay says: I just believe in working for what I want
[12/15/2008 11:46:45 PM] Aric says: Sadly,controlled wages is the building block of capitalism.
[12/15/2008 11:46:47 PM] Jay says: and the more you work, the more you make, the better you become at what you do and have the knowledge to do more
[12/15/2008 11:47:07 PM] Jay says: no one controls how much I make
[12/15/2008 11:47:12 PM] Jay says: well AT&T
[12/15/2008 11:47:13 PM] Jay says: does
[12/15/2008 11:47:23 PM] Aric says: exactly
[12/15/2008 11:47:31 PM] Jay says: but if I prove myself I can move up and make more
[12/15/2008 11:47:31 PM] Aric says: they put a value on what ur worth to them
[12/15/2008 11:47:32 PM] Jay says: that was my point
[12/15/2008 11:47:45 PM] Jay says: everything has a value
[12/15/2008 11:48:03 PM] Jay says: if nothing had a value what good would it be to anyone?
[12/15/2008 11:48:05 PM] Aric says: I assume you mean monetary value?
[12/15/2008 11:48:13 PM] Jay says: well yes
[12/15/2008 11:48:32 PM] Aric says: *sigh* I dont agree with that at all
[12/15/2008 11:48:54 PM] Jay says: that was my point about who would want to be a doctor when you know that no matter how many years you worked or skills you aquired you would only make "x" amount of dollars
[12/15/2008 11:49:56 PM] Jay says: I mean...why did you go to school?
[12/15/2008 11:50:07 PM] Aric says: I'm not saying that at all, you would still get an increase wage as a doctor based on experience and speciality, you would just get paid by the hour, not the patient. So doctors wouldnt be flying through patients treating them like numbers the way they do now.
[12/15/2008 11:50:09 PM] Jay says: to eventally make more money in the field you want to work in right?
[12/15/2008 11:50:52 PM] Aric says: And American doctors work more hours than in any country, even Japan
[12/15/2008 11:51:07 PM] Jay says: so...instead of waiting at the doctors office for hours like you do now b/c they are seeing a bazillion patients you would sit for hours b/c they didnt give a shit b/c they get paid anyway
[12/15/2008 11:51:58 PM] Aric says: I would hope someone that has my life in thier hands would give a shit, otherwise why would they becom a pysician in the first place? It's not like its easy
[12/15/2008 11:53:46 PM] Jay says: truthfully dear...you will find that most people dont give a shit
[12/15/2008 11:54:02 PM] Jay says: that's a lesson you will learn throughout life
[12/15/2008 11:54:14 PM] Jay says: you will find the ones that do...dont get me wrong
[12/15/2008 11:54:22 PM] Jay says: but the majority of people....dont
[12/15/2008 11:55:22 PM] Aric says: I would have to disagree with you. I think most Americans don't give a shit, true. But thats because we are the pampered rich kids of the world.
[12/15/2008 11:55:53 PM] Jay says: I am in no way pampered...and if I am...I did it myself by working my ass off
[12/15/2008 11:56:18 PM] Jay says: and yes...we as americans have more privledges that most others
[12/15/2008 11:56:23 PM] Jay says: that I know
[12/15/2008 11:56:30 PM] Jay says: but here in america you have to make your own way
[12/15/2008 11:56:37 PM] Jay says: that's what america was about
[12/15/2008 11:57:02 PM] Jay says: everyone coming to a place where they could make their own way
[12/15/2008 11:57:19 PM] Jay says: and now...our wonderful government wants to tell us what to do at every turn
[12/15/2008 11:57:23 PM] Aric says: Your missing the point I think. What is a government for?
[12/15/2008 11:57:37 PM] Jay says: to govern....but there are levels
[12/15/2008 11:57:47 PM] Jay says: and ours...is getting out of control
[12/15/2008 11:58:00 PM] Jay says: we have no checks and balances
[12/15/2008 11:58:04 PM] Jay says: they are outta whack
[12/15/2008 11:58:06 PM] Aric says: thats vague, a government is supose to, first and formost, protect its people correct?
[12/15/2008 11:58:14 PM] Jay says: NO
[12/15/2008 11:58:38 PM] Jay says: it clearly states in the constitution that we have the right to bear arms against our government
[12/15/2008 11:58:40 PM] Aric says: Oh and i agree with you, our gov. is compleatly out of controll
[12/15/2008 11:59:04 PM] Aric says: And yes i agree with that as well, the gov. should fear its people, not the other way around
[12/15/2008 11:59:12 PM] Jay says: therefore, they knew when writing the const that this would eventually happen
[12/15/2008 11:59:38 PM] Jay says: but when you elect elitist into office, what else can you expect
[12/15/2008 11:59:55 PM] Aric says: *sigh* so your saying you wanted McCain?
[12:00:21 AM] Aric says: oh, or do you mean in general?
[12:00:21 AM] Jay says: not that Im into the "good old boy" program either
[12:00:28 AM] Jay says: Obama will be a nightmare
[12:00:33 AM] Aric says: I think not
[12:00:40 AM] Jay says: as most people do
[12:00:47 AM] Jay says: b/c he promises "change"
[12:00:56 AM] Jay says: change isnt always good you know
[12:01:37 AM] Aric says: blah, I hate catch phrases. Anyway, the way i see it one of 2 things will happen
[12:02:28 AM] Jay says: haha I can tell you what will happen, our economy will fall and we will be forced into world goverment and there will no longer be a USA
[12:02:33 AM] Aric says: 1) Obama will be wonderful and things will at least start in the right direct (though thinking things will change overnight is just stupid)
[12:02:56 AM] Jay says: due to elitist such as Hillary
[12:03:24 AM] Jay says: I had hoped that Obama would stay away from the Clintons...but that didnt pan out
[12:03:52 AM] Jay says: I mean..hell his health care plan failed horridly
[12:03:59 AM] Aric says: or 2) The US gov. will royally fuck things up and people will eventually see that once things hit rock bottom, there is something seriously wrong, and the government will have a seriouse overhall. And ur right, maybe the US as it is today wont exsist, but I could only hope it would be something better.
[12:04:02 AM] Jay says: and who was the brains behind that? HILLARY
[12:04:22 AM] Aric says: Actually, clintons Health care plan never went through
[12:04:31 AM] Jay says: yes, I know
[12:04:36 AM] Jay says: however.....
[12:04:53 AM] Jay says: the reason i didnt go through was b/c of all the BS it entailed
[12:05:50 AM] Aric says: What fucked that up was that the insurance companies and stuff changed thier policies with the expectation that it WOULD go through, but when it didn't, the policies remained the same, and basically screwed everyone over
[12:06:33 AM] Aric says: By remained the same I mean, didnt change back to the old policies
[12:06:38 AM] Jay says: THAT is the problem
[12:06:43 AM] Aric says: exactly
[12:06:51 AM] Aric says: the insurance system is fucked over
[12:06:57 AM] Aric says: so we need a new system
[12:06:58 AM] Jay says: the insurance companies and the pharm companies
[12:07:03 AM] Aric says: *nods*
[12:07:21 AM] Jay says: its not the healthcare
[12:07:31 AM] Jay says: its not the providers
[12:07:37 AM] Jay says: its the suppliers
[12:07:50 AM] Jay says: b/c medicine is fucking cheap to make
[12:07:59 AM] Jay says: and expensive as hell to buy
[12:08:18 AM] Jay says: and insurnace companies are all about money
[12:08:26 AM] Jay says: I mean....it doesnt matter what insurance
[12:08:39 AM] Aric says: Yes, but you cant seperate the two really. I'm saying make the government BE the supplier, eliminate (or at least reduce) private insurance companies and make the gov. pay for it. Hence doctors being government employees.
[12:08:42 AM] Jay says: the actual idea of insurance is good...but in the long run its wasted money
[12:09:13 AM] Jay says: I think there should be some regulation
[12:09:16 AM] Jay says: but not just for doctors
[12:09:37 AM] Jay says: the insurnace companines and definately the pharm companies
[12:09:44 AM] Aric says: well sure, The government should never have total control, that would be asking for trouble
[12:10:23 AM] Jay says: but that's what everyone voted for
[12:10:29 AM] Jay says: obama total control plan
[12:10:33 AM] Jay says: yeah yeah
[12:10:40 AM] Jay says: he said you can keep what you have
[12:10:57 AM] Jay says: but really.....there would be some loophole somewhere
[12:11:09 AM] Jay says: and you would eventually have to switch
[12:11:32 AM] Aric says: I'm confused, what part of obama's health plan do you not like?
[12:12:42 AM] Jay says: I dont like government stepping in and fucking with things when they cant even balance thier own sheet
[12:12:48 AM] Jay says: thats the issue I have
[12:12:50 AM] Aric says: As long as the option for private insurance still exists, I dont think things would get out of hand. Obama just believes that the government should be taking care of its peoples health, and it should.
[12:13:01 AM] Jay says: why?
[12:13:36 AM] Jay says: its not the governments responsibility to keep you or me or anyone else up
[12:14:13 AM] Jay says: protection is different than longevity of life
[12:14:40 AM] Aric says: Why?! Why not? Having a country full of sick, homeless people doesnt do anyone any good. And people should look out for each other naturally, its called having a heart. If it is possible to affordibly save people from suffering, why wouldn't you?
[12:15:17 AM] Jay says: bc I cant save the world
[12:15:21 AM] Jay says: and the USA cant either
[12:15:31 AM] Aric says: Someone has to try
[12:15:50 AM] Aric says: or at the very least, not make the situation worse
[12:16:26 AM] Jay says: so when we "try" this and fail horribly are you going to be one of the people who stay and try to work it out with your country or will you run away to another country like all the other silly people plan on doing?
[12:16:51 AM] Jay says: b/c if you want to run away
[12:17:06 AM] Jay says: then you are no better than the people we have trying to run our government anyway
[12:17:12 AM] Aric says: I'll go (or stay) where i can be the most helpful, I can only do what I feel is right.
[12:17:33 AM] Jay says: so in the end it will boil down to "your" needs
[12:17:38 AM] Jay says: not everyone elses
[12:18:53 AM] Aric says: hmmmm, on one level yes. But by making things better for my self, i would (hopefully) be making things better for others as well, but that is all a matter of perspective
[12:26:45 AM] Jay says: ok whore
[12:26:47 AM] Jay says: Im right
[12:26:49 AM] Jay says: you right
[12:26:52 AM] Jay says: so....
[12:26:53 AM] Jay says: yeah
[12:26:58 AM] Jay says: we will just see what happens
[12:27:16 AM] Jay says: I just want to be able to stand there and tell you that i told you so
[12:27:28 AM] Aric says: Lol, I hope you never get the chance
[12:27:32 AM] Jay says: but i cant do that when you have ran off to another country
[12:27:38 AM] Aric says: XD
[12:28:01 AM] Aric says: We will see