the most part because the game is played out entirely from within Squall's mind- and he is neither perceptive nor empathic
This is an excellent point! The game really is about Squall getting in touch with his feelings and falling for Rinoa, rather than the other way around. And we should cut the characters some slack for being kids - god knows my romantic interests at age 17 were all-consuming. I'm not discounting what these ladies did to save their worlds from impending doom. I suppose my question is more along the lines of, why is it so necessary for FF female leads to have a romantic interest? Several of the supporting female characters (Selphie, Penelo, Yuffie, Elena, Paine) get to stand on their own, independent of romantic relationships.
Final Fantasy X-2 was the game that deliberately took apart both of these (by now far overused) heroic tropes
See, I have to disagree with you here. "It all began when I saw this sphere of you," she says. She spends the entire game narrating the adventure to Tidus. Would she have
( ... )
Sure, Yuna "finds herself", sort of (I'm biased by my opinion of her, here), but she's not looking for herself. She's looking for Tidus.
Everyone needs a start. Yuna in the state she was at the beginning of the game wouldn't go on a journey for her own sake. Doesn't mean that she won't find her real self in the meanwhile. If not Tidus, then what? Who? Sure, it's convenient that she's looking for her love interest, but it would be just as realistic that had Tidus not existed, she would have gone in search of someone else (or something else) meaningful that is not herself.
But does that ever really change in X-2? I'm not convinced she ever really finds herself - she sings the "1000 Words" concert not for fun or profit, but in order to bring peace to the warring factions in Spira, another example of her defining herself in terms of how she is needed. Does she fight Shuyin for her own sake, or because someone needs to lay him to rest? (I don't remember the answer to this; hopefully someone else does. ^.~) Yuna has always bothered me in this way, and will surely be the subject of another topic all on her own. But I think the telling argument in regards to this prompt is that the "Perfect Ending" involves her reuniting with Tidus. Why must perfection involve her being romantically paired at all, much less with a dream of the Fayth who should be nonexistent now?
She spent most of the first chapter narrating to Tidus, yes, but I did get the impression that that petered out as the game went on. You're right, she's most definitely looking for Tidus. But when the path stops leading to him, she stays on it for her own sake.
might even argue that the theme of self-sacrifice runs more strongly throughout the Final Fantasy heroines than does the theme of love.
YES. Sorry, I couldn't help but notice that gem. THAT IS PRECISELY IT.
To some extent, I think the self-sacrifice goes to a realm that is a little frightening. The most popular female characters (Aeris, Terra, Yuna) or at least the ones that receive the least amount of backlash are "martyr"ed in various ways that are almost a little abusive. While a lot of X-2 is annoying to me, Yuna's finding herself was probably the most delightful (though Rikku's simplification as Yuna's cheerleader was somewhat disheartening).
But doesn't it sort of scare you that only the sacrificed female leads in one form or another are the most liked?
There have been many more "martyred" male characters in Final Fantasy and in fantasy in general than there have been female characters of the same stripe, of that I assure you.
Besides, by your definition, any hero is a martyr because they take the weight of problems larger than they are onto their shoulders. You are not wholly wrong, but it is therefore somewhat disingenuous to suggest that the theme of self-sacrifice is the sole bailiwick of the long-suffering women of Final Fantasy.
Well there are more male characters to begin with. That's natural. There's martyrs of all kinds all over the games.
I'm just trying to address my slight frustration with the idea that people's opinions of certain characters, particularly female, seem to be colored with a certain sense that the female goes a little beyond even the typical heroic martyrdom. That she loses herself. Either her life, innocence, or self.
I know the Final Fantasy realm to a certain extent seems to shy from the actualization of allowing somewhat "uppity" female roles. Aeris is outspoken and wholly her own person, but she ends up dying before she can be a real "threat" ending up as some inhuman angelic symbol which is somewhat disheartening towards her personality. Tifa is relegated to taking Cloud's phonecalls and running a bar again when Final Fantasy VII is finished, if you take any stock in Advent Children as a canon. Terra takes on a safe motherly role at an orphanage, if she was ever really uppity at all. Even Lulu, whose sharp tongue and simple power
( ... )
Comments 37
This is an excellent point! The game really is about Squall getting in touch with his feelings and falling for Rinoa, rather than the other way around. And we should cut the characters some slack for being kids - god knows my romantic interests at age 17 were all-consuming. I'm not discounting what these ladies did to save their worlds from impending doom. I suppose my question is more along the lines of, why is it so necessary for FF female leads to have a romantic interest? Several of the supporting female characters (Selphie, Penelo, Yuffie, Elena, Paine) get to stand on their own, independent of romantic relationships.
Final Fantasy X-2 was the game that deliberately took apart both of these (by now far overused) heroic tropes
See, I have to disagree with you here. "It all began when I saw this sphere of you," she says. She spends the entire game narrating the adventure to Tidus. Would she have ( ... )
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Everyone needs a start. Yuna in the state she was at the beginning of the game wouldn't go on a journey for her own sake. Doesn't mean that she won't find her real self in the meanwhile. If not Tidus, then what? Who? Sure, it's convenient that she's looking for her love interest, but it would be just as realistic that had Tidus not existed, she would have gone in search of someone else (or something else) meaningful that is not herself.
Yuna has always done things for people.
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But does that ever really change in X-2? I'm not convinced she ever really finds herself - she sings the "1000 Words" concert not for fun or profit, but in order to bring peace to the warring factions in Spira, another example of her defining herself in terms of how she is needed. Does she fight Shuyin for her own sake, or because someone needs to lay him to rest? (I don't remember the answer to this; hopefully someone else does. ^.~) Yuna has always bothered me in this way, and will surely be the subject of another topic all on her own. But I think the telling argument in regards to this prompt is that the "Perfect Ending" involves her reuniting with Tidus. Why must perfection involve her being romantically paired at all, much less with a dream of the Fayth who should be nonexistent now?
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YES. Sorry, I couldn't help but notice that gem. THAT IS PRECISELY IT.
To some extent, I think the self-sacrifice goes to a realm that is a little frightening. The most popular female characters (Aeris, Terra, Yuna) or at least the ones that receive the least amount of backlash are "martyr"ed in various ways that are almost a little abusive. While a lot of X-2 is annoying to me, Yuna's finding herself was probably the most delightful (though Rikku's simplification as Yuna's cheerleader was somewhat disheartening).
But doesn't it sort of scare you that only the sacrificed female leads in one form or another are the most liked?
Just curious as to your opinion there.
~Cendri
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Besides, by your definition, any hero is a martyr because they take the weight of problems larger than they are onto their shoulders. You are not wholly wrong, but it is therefore somewhat disingenuous to suggest that the theme of self-sacrifice is the sole bailiwick of the long-suffering women of Final Fantasy.
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I'm just trying to address my slight frustration with the idea that people's opinions of certain characters, particularly female, seem to be colored with a certain sense that the female goes a little beyond even the typical heroic martyrdom. That she loses herself. Either her life, innocence, or self.
I know the Final Fantasy realm to a certain extent seems to shy from the actualization of allowing somewhat "uppity" female roles. Aeris is outspoken and wholly her own person, but she ends up dying before she can be a real "threat" ending up as some inhuman angelic symbol which is somewhat disheartening towards her personality. Tifa is relegated to taking Cloud's phonecalls and running a bar again when Final Fantasy VII is finished, if you take any stock in Advent Children as a canon. Terra takes on a safe motherly role at an orphanage, if she was ever really uppity at all. Even Lulu, whose sharp tongue and simple power ( ... )
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