Isn't life interesting?michigan_loverzJune 19 2006, 18:23:56 UTC
1) Getting pissed at a congregation is just going to piss people off about her. She was dead wrong in getting angry.
2)Do "saved" people just magically know all of the words to every hymn as soon as they: #1 Fall on their knees #2 Acknowlege that they are a sinner #3 Ask Jesus to come into your heart #4 Ask for forgiveness #5 Accept Jesus as your personal saviour
I learned hymns as a child in sunday school. I dont know all the verses but if you don't know them, you shouldnt be chastised for it. If you already know the melody from one verse, the rest you can read.
3)A zap cannot make everything ok. Some do find salvation with their choices, but thank god we aren't all alike. Some of their perceptions are emotionally charged. If you start hearing voices, then you need more than god's hand on your shoulder!!
4)Is it normal for a Christian to be cold and condescending to those who have "dead souls" but warm and friendly to those who are "born again"?No one has the right to do that, because by Christian law, there is only one person
( ... )
Re: Isn't life interesting?foliogeekJune 20 2006, 15:25:15 UTC
LA, thank you for your reply.
I certainly didn't mean for my post to be a complete rant, but I was really questioning whether or not I was completely wrong in the way I was thinking. Honestly, I am really afraid of falling into the herd mentality, following another person's agenda under the disguise of speaking the Word of God.
I still really wonder about this whole zap from heaven thing. I hear about it in people's testimonies that I wonder what kind of bubble of reality I really live in. I wonder if I am trying too hard to be a doubter (a Thomas), or if they are lying to fit the group (as Jennifer mentioned in her reply). In my reality, I *don't* hear voices in my head telling me to do this or that. I *don't* have visions of what I should or should not do when I wake up. I do, however, decide what I do-- whether I choose to do what I feel/know is right or wrong.
LA, I will never ever question that you're a Kevin Smith fan. I do remember those lines, and would never have thought to apply them in this context. :)
Jennifer, Thank you for your reply. I know that you have had a lot of formal education, and also have a reasonable approach. Also, you have seen what kind of bad things happen to people.
I am afraid of approaching any of the staff at the shelter, since I feel that I have a credible fear that I will be treated much differently.
I know that I would like to do more studies away from my current environment. I do pay close attention, and try to glean what I think is truthful from the hours of service that I have attended. There are a few things that I know that I can apply-- Things like learning how to deal with offense, and the right/wrong ways of replying to something offensive. Learning not to seek vindication or revenge since you can't fix something bad by doing something else bad.
While I try to become a better person inside and out--No doubt, I will have questions for you.
Re: Isn't life interesting?foliogeekJune 21 2006, 20:25:44 UTC
#1 - #3 are well said.
My coments on the "born again" part of #1: One of the main points in a sermon in the past week have been about people with "dead souls" and those who are "born again" to become a brother or sister. I've been told that God doesn't listen to your prayers until you are saved. That God will not accept a prayer unless you have the required ending or "we ask this in Jesus' name". Though there is some biblical references to this, would God really throw a sincere prayer away? I think that hits one of the born again philosophies on the head. Then yesterday, I heard otherwise-- that God listens to everyone.
#2: I've seen it. I've been it.
#3: Though I am critical and serching for answers, #3 is what I'm trying to become.
My $.02 worth...musical_brianJune 20 2006, 22:57:31 UTC
Dude... *offers a hug*
Alright... *I* think that those people in the shelter see that most everyone who is there *seems* to not have any self-confidence, and therefore tries to 'help' them find it and/or believe in something that is basically a crutch.
Now before I get lynched, this is *MY* view of the situation... No one elses...
Personally, I feel that in order to 'believe' in something, you should "believe in yourself first." On a side note, I am finding it rather difficult to *not* go off on my own views of religion for fear of getting lynched; but then again Rich wrote something... :) (I had to say *SOMETHING* Rich...)
I am wondering if I should even consider posting something on my view/beliefs for people to comment on, but I wouldn't want to alienate some people for speaking my mind...
Lastly (for now) I absolutely love that last line: The rest of the world judges your religion or belief when the gums start flapping.
Re: My $.02 worth...musical_brianJune 21 2006, 21:34:59 UTC
"Is it better to ask God for his wisdom so you can make an "educated decision" in a spiritual sense in your daily life? Kind of like asking for a little conscience boost."
- Some would say that 'Religion is life'... Personally, I don't think so... ("Believe in yourself before believing is something else...") I see it as some just using it as a excuse to dodge an issue. As far as "educated decisions" goes, shouldn't we *ALL* do that depending on the subject?
"Or, is it better to ask God for that job promotion, a new house, or that new car that is just too expensive for your budget? Is this a misinterpretation of 'Ask and you will receive.'?"
- Heh... I think I got to the position I'm at now with my employer by just doing my work and not making waves... (FYI - There are 5 positions with my department.. I have covered all 5 to some degree and I have a key for every forklift. *wink*) Did I *ask* for that trust/position? Nope.
In other words Mark, *I* don't think you're off base at all... :)
This is very very late. Stick to yourself and your own beliefs. And you and I can laugh our papist asses off when the protestants go to hell and we will rule. That's right, heaven will be Jews and Catholics and normal everyday Muslims. All extremists and Protestants will be burning. Hahahahahaha!
If being "saved" means you begin hearing voices and seeing things, then apparently being saved means instant schizophrenia. Weird. I wonder if I'm saved, 'cause I sometimes hear voices. No, I'm just crazy.
Comments 11
2)Do "saved" people just magically know all of the words to every hymn as soon as they: #1 Fall on their knees #2 Acknowlege that they are a sinner #3 Ask Jesus to come into your heart #4 Ask for forgiveness #5 Accept Jesus as your personal saviour
I learned hymns as a child in sunday school. I dont know all the verses but if you don't know them, you shouldnt be chastised for it. If you already know the melody from one verse, the rest you can read.
3)A zap cannot make everything ok. Some do find salvation with their choices, but thank god we aren't all alike. Some of their perceptions are emotionally charged. If you start hearing voices, then you need more than god's hand on your shoulder!!
4)Is it normal for a Christian to be cold and condescending to those who have "dead souls" but warm and friendly to those who are "born again"?No one has the right to do that, because by Christian law, there is only one person ( ... )
Reply
I certainly didn't mean for my post to be a complete rant, but I was really questioning whether or not I was completely wrong in the way I was thinking. Honestly, I am really afraid of falling into the herd mentality, following another person's agenda under the disguise of speaking the Word of God.
I still really wonder about this whole zap from heaven thing. I hear about it in people's testimonies that I wonder what kind of bubble of reality I really live in. I wonder if I am trying too hard to be a doubter (a Thomas), or if they are lying to fit the group (as Jennifer mentioned in her reply). In my reality, I *don't* hear voices in my head telling me to do this or that. I *don't* have visions of what I should or should not do when I wake up. I do, however, decide what I do-- whether I choose to do what I feel/know is right or wrong.
LA, I will never ever question that you're a Kevin Smith fan. I do remember those lines, and would never have thought to apply them in this context. :)
Reply
Reply
Thank you for your reply. I know that you have had a lot of formal education, and also have a reasonable approach. Also, you have seen what kind of bad things happen to people.
I am afraid of approaching any of the staff at the shelter, since I feel that I have a credible fear that I will be treated much differently.
I know that I would like to do more studies away from my current environment. I do pay close attention, and try to glean what I think is truthful from the hours of service that I have attended. There are a few things that I know that I can apply-- Things like learning how to deal with offense, and the right/wrong ways of replying to something offensive. Learning not to seek vindication or revenge since you can't fix something bad by doing something else bad.
While I try to become a better person inside and out--No doubt, I will have questions for you.
Reply
Reply
My coments on the "born again" part of #1:
One of the main points in a sermon in the past week have been about people with "dead souls" and those who are "born again" to become a brother or sister. I've been told that God doesn't listen to your prayers until you are saved. That God will not accept a prayer unless you have the required ending or "we ask this in Jesus' name". Though there is some biblical references to this, would God really throw a sincere prayer away? I think that hits one of the born again philosophies on the head. Then yesterday, I heard otherwise-- that God listens to everyone.
#2:
I've seen it. I've been it.
#3:
Though I am critical and serching for answers, #3 is what I'm trying to become.
Reply
Reply
Alright... *I* think that those people in the shelter see that most everyone who is there *seems* to not have any self-confidence, and therefore tries to 'help' them find it and/or believe in something that is basically a crutch.
Now before I get lynched, this is *MY* view of the situation... No one elses...
Personally, I feel that in order to 'believe' in something, you should "believe in yourself first." On a side note, I am finding it rather difficult to *not* go off on my own views of religion for fear of getting lynched; but then again Rich wrote something... :) (I had to say *SOMETHING* Rich...)
I am wondering if I should even consider posting something on my view/beliefs for people to comment on, but I wouldn't want to alienate some people for speaking my mind...
Lastly (for now) I absolutely love that last line: The rest of the world judges your religion or belief when the gums start flapping.
How TRUE that is... :) Thinking of you Mark..
Reply
Reply
- Some would say that 'Religion is life'... Personally, I don't think so... ("Believe in yourself before believing is something else...") I see it as some just using it as a excuse to dodge an issue. As far as "educated decisions" goes, shouldn't we *ALL* do that depending on the subject?
"Or, is it better to ask God for that job promotion, a new house, or that new car that is just too expensive for your budget? Is this a misinterpretation of 'Ask and you will receive.'?"
- Heh... I think I got to the position I'm at now with my employer by just doing my work and not making waves... (FYI - There are 5 positions with my department.. I have covered all 5 to some degree and I have a key for every forklift. *wink*) Did I *ask* for that trust/position? Nope.
In other words Mark, *I* don't think you're off base at all... :)
Reply
If being "saved" means you begin hearing voices and seeing things, then apparently being saved means instant schizophrenia. Weird. I wonder if I'm saved, 'cause I sometimes hear voices. No, I'm just crazy.
Reply
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