o_0

[framefolly]

Thank you for the thoughtful comments I received when I asked about your reading/viewing experiences of To Kill a Mockingbird -- they are really helpful! I will reply to them, but for now, I can't resist directing your attention to something incredible:

Firestorm Erupts Over Virginia's Education Goals

Seriously? SERIOUSLY?!?! I thought Sue Sylvester

Comments

[slaymesoftly]

OMG - This is what I get for retiring this year - I had no idea. I'm sure it's the subject of much discussion at school. Unbelievable. But hey, if everybody's reaching their goals, they it makes the schools look good, yes? Never mind if it means some of the kids aren't learning as much as others. There are so many better ways to address these issues - free pre-schools, after school programs, etc. Gah!

[zandperl]

Never mind if it means some of the kids aren't learning as much as others.

IMO the black/Latino students are being held to standards where they are required to learn more than the white students, because the black/Latino students come into the classes with lower scores and pass rates. See my lengthy argument below for more details.

[enigmaticblues]

O.o

Well. Huh. I guess we are moving backwards in time...

[zandperl]

Florida is already doing the same. What's worth noting in the Florida case (and perhaps in the VA, I haven't read through the whole article yet), is that while the absolute standard is higher for whites and lower for blacks/Latinos, that the improvement goals (called gains below) is higher for blacks/Latinos and lower for whites. Let me introduce you to a few concepts in assessment I've recently learned to show you why this is an important thing to consider, and my apologies if you're already familiar with these

[zandperl]

Reading the VA article you linked, and re-reading the NY Times FL article which I liked, it looks like both states are looking not at gains in score standards, but gains in overall pass-rate standards. The same argument holds for those, but IMO is not as strong an argument as if we looked at individual students score gains.

Also, the VA article doesn't explicitly state the "pre-" pass rates as does the NY Times FL article, but does refer oblique to the pre- in the quote "we're starting with black children where they are. We can't start them at the 82 percentile because they're not there."

[framefolly]

I must be brief because I really should be sleeping ;) .

Thank you for explaining a possible motive for these policies so clearly. I understand the importance of considering gains in drafting goals.

What I object to is conflating pre-test performance with race/ethnicity. Why not set separate goals for students who perform at different levels? Why go through the intermediate and inflammatory step of race? Doesn't this do a disservice to the high-performing Black, Latino, and disabled students as well as the low-performing Asian and White students?

Policy that is tied to skin color is problematic given this country's history. It also can promote racism in people who confuse correlation with causation.

[slaymesoftly]

Agreed - totally. Children are individuals and should be judged accordingly. If the students who have the most to gain are (mostly) black, so be it. That doesn't mean that all the black (or Latino, or Native American, or redneck, or ADD or whatever) should be evaluated based on their defining characteristics. If you want to evaluate how well the school/teacher/student is doing based on the gains made, that's fine. But don't measure those gains based on what you expect that student to do based on his/her color or ethnic background.

[sillymagpie]

I think I liked it better when I misread the titled as "Firestorm Erupts Over Virginia's Educational Goats." People...sigh.