Depressed Spuffy fan here...

[francy_m79]

.. can someone explain to me why, after all these years, I keep reading fandom opinions on Spuffy, googling old and new discussions, while knowing perfectly fine that all I ever get from that is pain and depression and hopelessness, since 90% of the posts I find out there are negative, and tend to put down, denigrate and demeane the whole Spuffy

Comments

[slaymesoftly]

Followed sueworld2003's link here. The quoted article upset me until I realized that wasn't a continuation of something James said somewhere, but just another anti-spuffy opinion from someone who, IMHO, wasn't watching the same show I was. I'd pick it apart, misunderstood or twisted fact by fact, but why bother? I just don't go places I'm likely to see anything like that. Better for my blood pressure. :)

I'm sorry you're finding things like that and that they are depressing you. There are still a lot of us out here who like our Spuffy and envision them living happily ever after (eventually...) :)

[francy_m79]

Thanks!!

I usually try and avoid fandom in order not to have these meltdowns, but sometimes I can't help it!! Also, the comics aren't helping, for me.

Luckily, there's LJ, which is a perfect relief valve!! XD

It's just that Spuffy means so much to me. The way I care is not healthy, really.

[shipperx]

Lord. Wish I hadn't read that.

And he should tell Pacey that "first love always wins". (As in the unintended irony encapsulated in the screen of Spike yelling at the televisionset that Joey will never really love Pacey... when in the end, she wound up with Pacey).
First love only "always wins" in immature fairy tales, not in any sort of adult, complex story.

[francy_m79]

LOL Apologies, I should have put some warning before that post!! :p

It wasn't that particular post that depressed me, it was just too ridiculous and biased and wrong not to post! It is the general dismissive attitute of non-spuffies towards the ship that bugs me. It almosts feels like the show wasted 3 seasons on that, judging from the reaction of most people to it...

[rebcake]

Boy, do I hear you! I am somewhat saved by not being able to figure out how to join the boards, but I do read a variety of reviews and blogs outside of fandom. I find that a reviewer's bias is fairly easy to see, and try to keep that in mind when reading. If I know there is going to be something virulently anti-Spike, I try to disengage from it emotionally, but it can be hard when I get blindsided.

A lot of people are absolutists, but I find more joy in nuance, which makes BtVS the perfect fandom for me. No characters or relationships on the show are simple, everybody has conflicting motivations, the heroes sometimes have evil intentions, the bad guys sometimes have decent impulses. So when I hear somebody say, "Unsouled Spike never did anything unselfish," it's pretty easy to come up with a counter-argument (in my head, why feed the trolls?): What about withstanding Glory's torture and sticking around to protect Dawn once Buffy was dead

[francy_m79]

Boy, do I hear you! I am somewhat saved by not being able to figure out how to join the boards, but I do read a variety of reviews and blogs outside of fandom. I find that a reviewer's bias is fairly easy to see, and try to keep that in mind when reading. If I know there is going to be something virulently anti-Spike, I try to disengage from it emotionally, but it can be hard when I get blindsided

[sherrilina]

Aww...*hug* I hate the negativity as well...but tbh I am not sure that even a further confirmation of Buffy romantically loving Spike would be enough to convince the haters; look at Cancel, where romantic love between them is explicitly confirmed several times, and yet people still widely claim that he didn't really love her, ignoring all the glaring evidence to the contrary. It seems if they don't like a ship, they deny it no matter what...*sigh*

I think ultimately btvs debates are not worth it, but they sure are hard to resist.

[francy_m79]

I agree that the same kind of phenomenon occurs... denial of what we don't like.

Cangel was dropped like a hot potato, though. Unfortunately, the writers seemed eager to forget it, due to the generally adverse reaction to it. So it's no wonder that people disregard canon to suit their preference.

On the other hand, Spuffy is still a viable and ongoing option (in theory), yet people behave like it didn't exist to begin with.

Strange world.

[sherrilina]

Mmm it was certainly back in full force in mid-season 5 during YW, and at least referred to a few times, and in the comics too as I understand it. And technically they could be reuinited in the afterlife? :p (Also how many ppl actually pay attn to the comics?)

Oh Gaius....<333. Speaking of romantic feelings random likes to sometimes deny...

[francy_m79]

YW was perfect closure, after they had killed it dead. I loved Angel/Cordy (more the idea and the potential than the execution, tbh) but Joss said they realized it had been a mistake (a mistake for who? Certainly not for me...) to pair them up romantically, and that they had brought the couple as far as they intended to. Sad, really.

Showrunners should stick to their vision, if they have one, and not let themselves be so influenced by audience reaction. Oh, well.

I guess Cangel and Spuffy really are similar when it comes to a lot of people being adversed to it, afterall.

Is everyone a secret Bangel shipper out there? LOL

As for the comics, 3 people in total? :p LOL

[elisi]

From Joss' commentary on Chosen, as Spike and Buffy grasp hands and the hands burst into flame:

I thought that this was a sort of romantic image, the two of them. We actually did it with real fire but their hands were all gelled up and you could tell, so this was added CGI, and looks beautiful. I thought it was a nice comment on their relationship. But what I basically told them was "Play the romance. Be proud of him. Love him when you say you love him. Love her when you say she doesn't love you. Forget about the crumbling world. For that period of time it doesn't exist."

If someone is there for you, is asking nothing of you and has loved you faithfully and unconditionally for all those years, and if that person is the one that you turn to for comfort and support when you are at your most vulnerable, and if they give you that comfort and support unconditionally asking nothing in return, then whether you acknowledge it or not, that is love, so yes, Buffy loved Spike. -- Jane Espenson

- [David Fury] thinks Buffy was in love with

[francy_m79]

ROTFL @ the gif.

I know all those quotes, and they help when I start thinking that I'm completely delusional about the ship. Still, the creators can shout it until they are blue in the face and it won't change anyone's opinion. In the end they created a story that they intended to be a romance, and a large portion of the fanbase deny it to this day.

It is certainly due to people's bias, but they also gave them enough element to persist in their bias.

But yes, haters gonna hate is the best attitude, which I usually try to adopt... unless I'm in a blue mood like I was when I wrote this post! :(

[elisi]

I am happily settled in my very own fandom zen [when it comes to Buffy], but oh, I know how awful it is to see everyone misread everything.

The thing is, a chunk of people will always insist on seeing things their own way, and there's nothing we can do. And yes, there is basis in the show to see things their way - and their bias plays into that. (Bias is a very strong thing - I've seen people complain that Moffat is a misogynist because he writes too many strong female characters. Seriously.)

When it comes to fandom, people don't work on logic, and anyone can find support for anything they want. Heck, I could write meta right now about how the whole thing is actually about cheese.

Was Spuffy subversive and abusive and difficult? Yes. And that's why I love it. It generated strong feelings, it was unpredictable and dangerous. We touched the fire, and it burned...

I'll end by quoting Anna again, because she says it best:

Besides, I suspect Buffy/Angel shippers either have a different concept of love to mine, or a different concept

[francy_m79]

I've seen people complain that Moffat is a misogynist because he writes too many strong female characters. Seriously.

O_° *is confused* I don't particularly like Moffat and his DW, but that seriously doesn't make sense!!

Was Spuffy subversive and abusive and difficult? Yes. And that's why I love it. It generated strong feelings, it was unpredictable and dangerous. We touched the fire, and it burned...

<3 <3

And again, my problem is not Bangels... but the people who don't have a horse in this race, who don't tend to hate Spuffy as much as some shippers of other couples do, but struggle to see a romance, season 7 be damned. But whatever, indeed!! Sometimes the best pieces of art are not comprehended by the mob!! :p ;)

(And goodness knows I wouldn't have spent *years* digging into that 'ship if it wasn't worth it! *g*)

Cerainly not... how terrible would it be to realize that we have wasted all these years and energy into ot? LOL ;)