saving the world, writing my thesis, etc.
i'm going to post this now because i want the feedback, even though it's not as complete as it could be. i may flesh it out as time goes on and if people want clarification.
note: i make some potentially broad and unsupported claims, such as that it's a myth that we're in iraq to spread democracy. because i'm only using these claims for the sake ( Read more... )
note: i make some potentially broad and unsupported claims, such as that it's a myth that we're in iraq to spread democracy. because i'm only using these claims for the sake ( Read more... )
Comments 16
First, it's easy to come off as saying "there are powerful emotional appeals on behalf of positions X and Y and Z, and if only people were exposed to them, they would agree with me." But thispresumes that hard-to-resist emotional appeals ought not be resisted. The anti-abortion people do this too: "people only support abortion because they haven't spent enough time looking at pictures of aborted fetuses, before and after." So do death penalty advocates: "You're only opposed to the death penalty because you haven't seen enough murder victims."
Second, if you're not careful, it's easy to come off as wildly patronizing towards just about everybody who disagrees with you about just about anything. Saying "Everybody would agree with me if they were properly educated" is both unconvincing and insulting.
The last thing to be careful about is that your thesis is virtually unfalsifiable. Are there people who disagree with your claims? Can you rebut them?
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hm. yes, you are right about this. there are a lot of instances where cognitive dissonance can have undesirable results, such as your abortion example. (undesirable in my view, much of the time; i'm not saying abortion is always good, or that i can even know it's moral validity for sure.) however, i do think that there are times when the emotional appeal would be very helpful. but you are right that it is not always as black and white as i was painting it.
Second, if you're not careful, it ( ... )
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But our minds are evolved, and therefore the idea that we should, let alone could be logically consistent is likely false.
Take morality, for instance. We've evolved to be moral beings because this is personally advantageous to us. We have evolved an entire neural structure specifically for empathy. We are born empathetic. But of course, we're also born hungry. I eat meat because I enjoy it. I wouldn't be able, right now, to go out and kill a bunny rabbit. This makes perfect sense- I have never lost my empathy for bunny rabbits. The fact that I will eat one also makes perfect sense, as I am hungry and like the taste of bunny rabbit.
This is not really contradictory, but by your definition is "cognitive dissonance." So what would be your solution? To extrapolate morality?
The simple fact of the matter is that people are only concerned with the morality of the actions they commit because ( ... )
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i don't think cognitive dissonance is abnormal, though i do think it can be morally problematic. i.e., with cognitive dissonance, people can indirectly contribute to practices that they would otherwise feel guilty about contributing towards.
But our minds are evolved, and therefore the idea that we should, let alone could be logically consistent is likely false.
i would like to see you and an economist in a room together, that would be fantastic :). but yes, i generally agree with you: people are not logical much of the time.
This is not really contradictory, but by your definition is "cognitive dissonance." So what would be your solution? To extrapolate morality?say that you had to kill and prepare your own food. as you said, you do not think you would be able to kill a bunny rabbit at the moment. but if you were hungry enough, you might do it. because you said you are empathetic toward ( ... )
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The cognitive dissonance point actually works the other way, I think. If people are forced to chose between their principles and their actions, very often they change their principles and decide that on second thought, they don't care about animals, don't care about justice, etc. Tribal societies have historically tended to be very violent.
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hmm. i would like to see more formalized data on this, though i would believe it. i do know that my mom was raised on a farm, and she has the loosest moral standards toward animals of anyone i interact with on a regular basis.
The cognitive dissonance point actually works the other way, I think. If people are forced to chose between their principles and their actions, very often they change their principles and decide that on second thought, they don't care about animals, don't care about justice, etc.
dammit, you may be right if we're talking about people who cannot have cognitive dissonance, and who are forced to choose between principles and actions. which is somewhat disheartening, but it makes perfect sense and is beneficial in a lot of ways.
Tribal societies have historically tended to be very violent.i never said there were any absolute moral truths that all societies should or should want to adhere ( ... )
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The thing that strikes me when I read this is that you're using
the terms "cognitive dissonance" and "anomie" a lot, but I'm not
convinced they're what you really have in mind. The use of these words feels sloppy
to me. I say this not merely to nitpick language, but because
I'm hoping that pushing you to use clearer words will lead to
clearer thinking.
Cognitive dissonance is a condition, not a cause; it's a feeling
people experience when thoughts contradict or thoughts and actions
contradict. When people feel this discomfort, they look for ways
to relieve themselves of it (e.g. they rationalize).
But the way you're talking about it, it sounds like the
problem is the inconsistency that causes the feeling,
not the feeling itself. And when you say "if people had to watch..."
it sounds like what needs to be addressed is lack of awareness
- am I getting this right? If that's the case, maybe it's
actually desirable to have more cognitive dissonance (if people
felt enough of it, they might be motivated to do something).
I have a ( ... )
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this could probably be clearer and more fleshed out, but i figure i should just post the thing before i lose the motivation to work on it. i'd also be up with chatting about it; i'm probably more likely to respond in conversation than over LJ :).
The thing that strikes me when I read this is that you're using the terms "cognitive dissonance" and "anomie" a lot, but I'm not convinced they're what you really have in mind. The use of these words feels sloppy to me. I say this not merely to nitpick language, but because I'm hoping that pushing you to use clearer words will lead to clearer thinking ( ... )
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