Some initial thoughts on S5...

[ginzai]

So, the season five. I don't normally do episode reaction posts, preferring to get my squee on in meta-post comments, but these two episodes have quite pleased me and I want to jot out a few thoughts. I thought both of them were generally tightly plotted, brilliantly acted, and that the cinematography (particularly in 5x01) was just delightful

Comments

[brianshanelvr]

Ellen and John can go sit on a log. ;P Though Bobby being able to out strong a demon as John did... Eh, both seem well, not likely.

Having Sam not go through any more physical withdrawels seemed far fetched. Not believable.

Then there is the amulet, I didn't think of the fact they didn't really talk about how his necklace could do such a thing. I was too wrapped up I guess. The entire thing with John lasting in Hell and crawling out, I won't even go there.

Healthy, maybe... I'm far too hurt at the moment, to think of it as a positive thing.

[ginzai]

Aw, I love John and Ellen. *g* I could appreciate the scene in DT because John so obviously was trying there and you could practically feel his horror and terror for his boys dripping off of him. And he didn't manage it for very long, either - a couple of seconds, just long enough to give Sam the freedom to act. With Bobby, there was no sense of how hard it should have been. And okay, Bobby was dealing with a mere black eyed demon, not the YED, but still! It felt trite to me and it should have been awesome

[nerthus]

The only thing that makes sense as far as Bobby's injury preventing him from walking is when Zachariah was torturing the boys to try to get Dean to cave and agree to be Michael's 'vessel' or whatever; he told Dean that if Dean didn't agree to do it, Bobby would never walk again or words to that effect. So maybe it's Zachariah's fault Bobby is crippled and not a direct result of his injury? Cas made Zach put the boys back together, but he didn't say 'fix Bobby, too!', so maybe Zachariah in a snit left him that way? Just grasping at straws here, ha. And poor Bobby; I admit I did like him better when his appearances were more limited and he was just this vaguely comforting, supportive presence in the background that the boys knew they could fall back on; now that he's more up front and center, he does tend to grate just a bit. But I still have a lot of affection for him, mainly stemming from how much I LOVED that scene in the junkyard during AHBL 2 and how openly he revealed how much the Winchester boys have come to mean to him. As for

[ginzai]

Thanks for your thoughts! And you're right, that is a good point - I wouldn't put it past Zachariah to pull a stunt like that! It still doesn't explain why Bobby wasn't on some morphine right after being released from surgery though. having had surgery myself, you are on an IV at least for a while afterward and for a wound as significant as Bobby's absolutely would have had one as well as a drip for antibiotics.

I liked Bobby quite a good deal until S4. That's when it felt like he really started to cross the line for me. It started with Dean's "the closest thing I have to a father" comment. That really rubbed me the wrong way because at that point, we hadn't seen any indication of Bobby as a paternal figure. He was very avuncular and friendly and I loved his "family don't end with blood" but none of that is particularly fatherly, you know? And from there on, it just got worse. He was portrayed so cold and uncaring in Yellow Fever (bad writing there in general, I felt), he was deus ex machina in S&V, his characterization

[ginzai]

I think Bobby was my least favorite recurring character in SPN following 4x22 and he's still really in that position, but the gap from where he was and where he is now isn't quite as high. If they back off of the daddy!Bobby concept though, my ire will be much appeased.

I like it too. It means Sam gave Dean God radio. ;)

Ha! It figures - Anna gets Angel radio, but Dean has the upgraded version. He's got satellite. :D

It wasn't as important, what Sam did, to him as it was to Dean. (Oh, Dean.) And. Or. Something. I think that's in character, in any case, but he may have also felt it wasn't his place to say anything, that he would wait for Dean to say something... Wow, I hadn't even considered the option that Sam might not care about it. I like the other concept so much better, that Sam didn't say anything because he's feeling shaky and uncertain and doesn't necessarily feel he has the right to speak up. Sam knows it's important, after all - he took it with him when he buried Dean. Even after he gave up on saving his brother,

[ginzai]

See, Sam carrying the amulet around after Dean's death really starts to make me think because Sam DID give up remarkably quickly (as we've discussed before) but what would it mean that he kept Dean's amulet and wore it thereafter? And does it signify anything that Sam kept it under his clothing? Was he unwilling to allow anyone else to see it or did he want to keep it close to his heart? It's like a mini-symbolic moment of Sam's feelings towards Dean throughout all of S4!

[forwardish]

I've read several people grumbling because they think that Dean is going TOO FAR but really, can you blame the guy?

WORD. I've said it a zillion times and I can't find like, the words to say it again but FINALLY and OMFG and just... it needed to happen.

And someone was talking about how Sam is sorry that he killed Lilith and started teh end of the world but he's not sorry for choosing Ruby over Dean. The important thing here with their relationship. Because if it had worked, Sam wouldn't be remotely sorry.

And yes, Dean is evolving and it's GOOD I think.

HATERS TO THE LEFT. What?

[ginzai]

I've wanted Dean to blow up at Sam for about three seasons now. *g* Dean's outburst in 5x01 was pretty pure poetry as far as I'm concerned and I imagine was the collection of a number of issues and long unsaid words, probably going back to the Stanford argument.

I think you're right that if Sam's plan had worked, he wouldn't have been sorry in the slightest. It's why I was hoping he'd be wrong when S4 was airing because I didn't want to see him be rewarded for his terrible behavior. Of course, if Sam had been right, he'd still be hopped up on the demon blood which did seem to have a negative impact on his emotions, so...

I think they're both evolving and that it's really fantastic. Sam is really being forced to confront the consequences of his actions for pretty much the first time ever. Dean is learning to put other people ahead of the Winchesters and how to make the really touch judgment calls. IT'S GOOD TIMES.

Haters to the left indeed! \o/

[mangokulfi]

I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this episode. I loved it myself

[ginzai]

I wouldn't blame them for it if they didn't like to paint themselves into a corner and then use deus ex machina to get themselves out again

[mangokulfi]

I wouldn't blame them for it if they didn't like to paint themselves into a corner and then use deus ex machina to get themselves out again. Oh yeah ITA. I just think that the writers like big ideas and the big shocking moments but they really have no interest in committing to the aftermath for the most part. I actually don't expect even the boys' issues with each other to last past the first third of the season. But as long as it's well done when it is being dealt with, I won't complain too, too much. ;)

Personally, I think Sam and Dean are pretty closely matched in terms of popularity, with Dean edging Sam out by a small amount. When it comes to meta, fanfic, and fanfic requests, Sam seems to be just as much in demand as Dean is. I think you are right as far as LJ is concerned. But I think in the more general fandom and judging by my real life friends, polls and comments on articles and such, I think generally Dean is quite significantly more popular. But this is just an impression I have gotten since it's really hard to

[ginzai]

Oh yeah ITA. I just think that the writers like big ideas and the big shocking moments but they really have no interest in committing to the aftermath for the most part.Definitely. I think they tend to get distracted by the latest shiny thing and interest in it tends to last for about a season and a half before they move onto something else. I really hope that tensions will last at least for a while between Sam and Dean, but I wouldn't be upset if this were pretty much the lowest point between the brothers and things start to slowly improve from here on out. I just don't want it all to get brushed under the rug, even if things start to get better from here on out