a few thoughts on why I'm wary of communities

[goddess32585]

b/c invariably, at the moment a community can usefully be said to exist, it now has momentum, definition, an in and an out, cultural signifiers, and a drive for self-preservation. People are social, they like to have fun, and why fix it if it ain't broke

Comments

[rivenwanderer]

I tend to observe that shiny communities exist, and feel my way around the fringes of them, and go "Ooo! I wanna be a Cool Kid Of [group]!"

But I don't generally have the focus or the drive or the work ethic or the patience (with group politics and ever-aggregating-human-flaws and so on) to actually work my way into being a Cool Kid Of anything in particular... In the end I make some small contributions and learn some stuff, but pretty much remain on the edges of many things. Which seems to be working out OK for me for the most part (and I do try to make sure it doesn't involve me taking more than I give to the communities I wander through, and I hope that when I don't succeed at this, the amount I do take is at least small enough).

[goddess32585]

Yeah, being a Cool Kid is...not really on my radar.

[nakor]

I like people. I've never met a community. I think communities are optical illusions. Human brains are wired to see them, but they aren't really there. There's really just people, in some combination of caring and not caring about each other and about each others' relationships. You can write A cares about B for a person B, or A cares about (the relationship between B and C), or A cares about (the relationships about B,C,...J). But only the people actually care. Relationships never care about anybody. I'm sure I have some details wrong, but the core seems solid: care about people, expect/demand/hope that others care about people, and don't be too surprised or hurt when people show that real people are flawed and imperfect

[goddess32585]

I suspect communities exist in consensual reality; the relationships between a group of people are often greater than the sum of the individual relationships between them, especially if identity is tied up in it. Also, I've spent years being cynical and unsurprised when people are dicks, but somehow that doesn't erase the hurt. Pain doesn't work that way, so far as I can tell

[goddess32585]

I think I get hung up on the "find a saner community" bit; I have a hard time finding these places to begin with, and convincing myself to try them out, that it's way easy to run home and keep hanging out with conana in my kitchen.

[kendar0ne]

I see a lot of what you see.

Many of the communities I am a part of seem to do the "we will really identify with these principles, until nobody's looking/someone calls us on it" bit. Really they put forth as much effort needed to still claim those as primary goals, and then you get secondary (re: personal) agendas running the show. But whatever gets the work/cool thing/common cause/social atmosphere going!

[goddess32585]

Thank you, I appreciate this.

[dilletante]

well, i'm constitutionally not a "joiner." not for any well-considered, rational reasons; it just takes me a long time to feel fully part of and comfortable in even a community i helped found. maybe this means i'm less bothered by what poor individual behavior means for group identity? it sounds like you aren't bothered due to being too-identified with the group, though, so... i'm not sure. i take a lot of time to become comfortable?

[goddess32585]

Ha, and from where I'm sitting, you're mad easygoing and sociable ;) Though I think you also carry more bits of your identity unassailably around with you, and are more confident than I.

I am not inherently opposed to defining and performing my identity-bits on my own, without reference to others, but I have been feeling isolated recently, and uneasy about how skewed my social circle is in some icky directions. And I think some of these communities are doing work I would like to be a part of, like charity/support network/activism stuff, so I've been trying to engage more.