Inspired by a Virgin = Steak Sauce comment...

[greenblackevil]

Okay, so I've been hearing a lot of "Oh man, boys sure love virgins!" chatter recently.  Mostly it's in the form of "A virgin would make the best possible wife."  Or "Men are just naturally attracted to virgins for their long-term partners!  It makes sense, because the baby could only be theirs!"

And I have only one thing to say:

LIES!!!!

Comments

[softlykarou]

I remember in high school thinking that if I wasn't a virgin until marriage no one would want me. It was implied that me being a virgin would be more appealing than being hot (and some church ladies had said I wasn't going to attract a man with my personality, brains or looks). I had the all abstinence only sex ed complete with cheetos spit up to represent a "used girl". My mom's pastor however taught us that it was more about choice and my rabbi basically said the same. Thankfully I went to Knox where I quickly learned that the world did not work the way I had been taught.

I mean, it's a choice like anything else. I have friends who are virgins who are no less sexual than my more experienced friends. But the idea that it's a must or as I said "like steak sauce" it ridiculous. When I am attracted to someone I am attracted to them, not their virginity or lack thereof.

[greenblackevil]

Ugh. I keep forgetting where you escaped from.

That's incredibly fucked up. But I'm glad you got out. Besides, those church ladies were on crack/desperately jealous of how hot you are. I said it before and I'll say it again, everywhere I go, wherever you've been before, people are always like "God DAMN that Rachel chick is hot!"

Anyway, I always viewed it as something dependent upon the actual person's situation and personality- being a virgin didn't say anywhere near as much about them as *why* they were, or weren't, a virgin. Hell, I'm kinda-sorta dating a virgin right now, and her virginity has nothing to do with a conscious choice to be a virgin, so much as a dearth of partners who a) aren't intimidated by her and b) are sexually compatible with her, over the course of her life. Which is to say, it's a fascinating story in it's own right, and has nothing to do with a conscious choice specifically about virginity. But I think you've had different experiences.

[morrigirl]

I turned down sex with each and every guy who seemed to get off on the idea of me being a virgin.

I actually had to talk the guy I lost my virginity to into having sex with me because he wasn't sure he even wanted to be someone's first. I think that's one of the reasons I was dead set on having sex with him.

[greenblackevil]

Every word you say heals all the wounds in my soul. Have I mentioned that I love you?

I really, really wish more people had your kind of awareness. What was going through your head, though? Did you just think the whole inner dialogue of "Virgin? You mean I might be your first? Please excuse me as I fetishize you as a walking talking ego boost!" was creepy? Or did you come to a feminist-theory-heavy conclusion that this definitely was the course of action you were going to take?

[morrigirl]

It was mostly subconscious. I just knew that I didn't trust the guys I turned down. I did not trust that they would treat me with the respect and gentleness I felt I deserved. I wrote a whole post about the experience back in December of 2007: http://morrigirl.livejournal.com/581287.html

[dorchadas]

You forgot the whole, "Well, if she's a virgin I can train her into being the way *I* want her to be sexually, rather than having her come in with a bunch of pre-conceived notions that might not even match mine."

That and something I've seen in Japan (though it applies elsewhere too) is the festishization of innocence.

[greenblackevil]

Yup. Same deal in China. On both counts. Both of those things are driven by the same fear of female... Anything. It ultimately stems from sex-negativity, and that ultimately stems from all the social/psychological warping that humans had to put themselves through in order to function as agricultural communities.

[dorchadas]

I tend to be pretty suspicious of most sociological explanations based around a pre/post agricultural revolution model (though the health effects are pretty undeniable).

And you didn't even bring up the virgin/whore thing! It's more powerful here, though it happens both places. Women and men go out, women get drunk and put up token resistance (even though they want sex) which the man is expected to overcome, thereby preserving the illusion that it's something that the man wanted and was taken from the woman. After all, if she wanted sex, she'd be a slut.

It's probably also the reason for the typical pattern of Japanese women's vocalizations during sex ("no," "stop!", "it hurts..." and so on).

[faoiltiama]

I think I was lucky in that my mom told me that I didn't have to wait to have sex until I was married, but I did have to wait until I was in love. She said it with this kind of haunted look in her eyes too, which made me think she was speaking from experience, so it stuck with me, and I'm grateful that it did because I think I passed up on making a lot of horrible mistakes because of it. I also had a similar experience to morrigirl in that the first guy I ever did have sex with was hesitant to have sex with me for the first time because he knew I was a virgin and he didn't want to ruin my "first time" experience. :p