I think the only way those lines can make sense is if Snape already knew/guessed but was seeing if Dumbles would finally own up.
Certainly no problem here in ignoring a couple of lines - I either completely ignore the epilogue or don't read it as JKR intended. I don't think it explicitly says anywhere that Hermione married Ron or that Ron's kids are hers. *is happily deluded*
DD is hoping to manipulate things right up to the grisly end (more on that as the fic unfolds). Your analysis is spot on, and it's the "still" a pawn even though he's done the unthinkable that bothers me so much, I think. *sigh* Poor Snape!
Severus' knowledgeoryx_leucoryxAugust 19 2009, 17:58:15 UTC
There is one big difference between Horace Slughorn and Severus Snape: age. We know from canon that Dumbledore managed to ban the subject of Horcruxes even before he became headmaster - Horace tells Tom the books aren't even in the restricted section (but they were there previously). And do you think Voldemort would want anyone else learning about them? He plans on living forever, any other immortal would be his competitor. So terri_testing suggested both Dumbledore and Voldemort made an effort to buy, confiscate or destroy any book about Horcruxes they could access in Britain - from Hogwarts, Ministry sources, book shops and private libraries. Such that for example the relevant volumes from the Lestrange family library ended up in Voldemort's collection. However he had no access to the Black family's library because it was under control of the elder Blacks (there would have been magical protection against removing such a book without permission of the head of the family). So Regulus could find the information at home. But if the
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Re: Severus' knowledgegrrangerousAugust 19 2009, 22:51:32 UTC
If you're committed to believing that Severus didn't know, then nothing will convince you. I guess I'm not easily convinced that such knowledge could be easily hidden. Sure, Snape is younger than Slughorn, and AD had no-doubt removed the relevant books from the Hogwarts library, but still, the Princes (or Eileen at least) were into the Dark Arts--for Snape is depicted as up to his eyeballs in it from before he even arrived at school. By the time the books begin, he's depicted as an expert at the Dark Arts--such that even AD asks for his help with Dark objects (such as the cursed necklace in 6th year, or his own health). Even if you want to imagine that the *only* book AD hasn't confiscated is in the Black library, then it's enough to realise that the grown up Snape had access to the library once Sirius came back on the scene. Given his expertise, and AD's readiness to turn to it, I can imagine that if books were removed from the Black library, AD might have asked Snape to be the one to do it. I find it unconvincing that Snape didn't
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Re: Severus' knowledgeoryx_leucoryxAugust 19 2009, 23:19:35 UTC
There is no evidence whatsoever that the Princes were into Dark Arts. All we know is that 11 year old Severus knew a few curses, and all one needs for that is a book like the one Harry saw during his first trip to Diagon Alley. Even after the werewolf incident Lily only blames him of being friends with Mulciber who supposedly used dark magic on Mary McDonald (but we have no information to judge), not that he was practicing Dark Arts himself. This means that if Sirius was right about Severus being 'famous' for being into Dark Arts this notoriety only came to be in 5th year (probably when he cast his one known Dark spell in public - when he used Sectumsempra on James). In fact Sirius does not say when Severus became known for Dark Arts, only that as a first year he knew more curses than most seventh years. Since most seventh years only know a handful of curses that isn't saying much
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Re: Severus' knowledgeoryx_leucoryxAugust 20 2009, 06:55:44 UTC
Adding to my previous reply: Until he was cursed by the ring Dumbledore intended to take care of the Horcruxes himself - except Harry who was being left to Voldemort and perhaps Nagini (it isn't clear how he was going to gain access to her). So there was no need to involve anyone else until then. Once he knew he wouldn't be able to complete the task he left it to Harry because his blood connection to Voldemort ensured that he couldn't be killed as long as Voldemort retained his current body. I don't know why Dumbledore didn't get around to tell Harry what means existed to destroy Horcruxes (it shouldn't have added more than 10 minutes to the Horcrux lesson) but once he realized what was missing all he had to do was add sending the books to Severus' sword delivery mission. Hermione however made that part unnecessary.
For all we know, one of the books in Hermione's collection was the Black family's book.
I have many varying thoughts on this subject regarding DH, but it's hard to put into words. Sometimes I think my expectations were too high; whether for Rowling and the story as a whole or for Snape, I'm not sure. However, I certainly felt that Rowling focused primarily on the characters which exemplified her own ideology (such as Harry and Dumbledore; regardless of their prominence as characters, she certainly sets them apart; when I read it I felt neither could do any wrong, because they exemplified a certain morality which Rowling meant to portray).
Certain other characters, then, remained stock figures in the background, providing the backdrop to her heroic exemplars, ie. stalker kid Snape and dense adult Snape. Both could have been expressed in a more complex way, but were doomed to be otherwise, I felt.
Thank goodness for fanfic :) and I do thank Rowling for such an imaginative world, despite my dislike of the portrayal.
I also had very high expectations for DH--I expected so many of the loose ends to be resolved, but instead ended up with more than ever.
For me the most disappointing thing was the direct parallel between AD and SS that was set up once we learnt both of their pasts: they both, as very young men, committed to dubious political projects, for both of them this had dreadful consequences that made them change their minds (Ariana was killed, Lily was killed), they switched sides and worked tirelessly towards their new goals, they both lived without love. And then, that AD could be so heartless and unforgiving towards SS? That AD got to live and die as a hero, while Snape remained unloved and unrespected? Bah! It was too much for me.
Thanks for your comments! And for all your reviews. :)
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I think the only way those lines can make sense is if Snape already knew/guessed but was seeing if Dumbles would finally own up.
Certainly no problem here in ignoring a couple of lines - I either completely ignore the epilogue or don't read it as JKR intended. I don't think it explicitly says anywhere that Hermione married Ron or that Ron's kids are hers. *is happily deluded*
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(here via a tortuous route - most recently ffnet. Do mind if I friend you?)
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I'm glad to hear that you're convinced, we can live on together in our happily revised canonicity. :)
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DD is hoping to manipulate things right up to the grisly end (more on that as the fic unfolds). Your analysis is spot on, and it's the "still" a pawn even though he's done the unthinkable that bothers me so much, I think. *sigh* Poor Snape!
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For all we know, one of the books in Hermione's collection was the Black family's book.
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I have many varying thoughts on this subject regarding DH, but it's hard to put into words. Sometimes I think my expectations were too high; whether for Rowling and the story as a whole or for Snape, I'm not sure. However, I certainly felt that Rowling focused primarily on the characters which exemplified her own ideology (such as Harry and Dumbledore; regardless of their prominence as characters, she certainly sets them apart; when I read it I felt neither could do any wrong, because they exemplified a certain morality which Rowling meant to portray).
Certain other characters, then, remained stock figures in the background, providing the backdrop to her heroic exemplars, ie. stalker kid Snape and dense adult Snape. Both could have been expressed in a more complex way, but were doomed to be otherwise, I felt.
Thank goodness for fanfic :) and I do thank Rowling for such an imaginative world, despite my dislike of the portrayal.
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For me the most disappointing thing was the direct parallel between AD and SS that was set up once we learnt both of their pasts: they both, as very young men, committed to dubious political projects, for both of them this had dreadful consequences that made them change their minds (Ariana was killed, Lily was killed), they switched sides and worked tirelessly towards their new goals, they both lived without love. And then, that AD could be so heartless and unforgiving towards SS? That AD got to live and die as a hero, while Snape remained unloved and unrespected? Bah! It was too much for me.
Thanks for your comments! And for all your reviews. :)
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And I'm happy to review when I can :)
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