Another SCA Question

[gwyneth1362]

When you are at Coronation (or I suppose any event, really) and the Peers swear fealty, do you notice if they swear in unison, with the oath memorized, as opposed to having the herald read and reapeat

Comments

[liamstliam]

Generally, ours is an individual thing. After Coronation, the king and queen sit in state and people swear fealty.

I don't see a knight as different from anyone else.

Our kings expect kingdom officers to swear fealty.

[gwyneth1362]

Ours does too, along with landed barons and baronesses. The question was sparked by a discussion on another list I am on, and related more specifically to Peers.

I am always interested in the idea of swearing fealty individually. It seems then to change the idea of it to me, away from a public show of support from the Peers (and populace) to the Crown. I recognize it is totally related to my SCA 'upbringing' but the idea is so foreign to me. :-)

I do notice

[krkhst]

When somone is in multiple groups and they go up to swear for each different group. Seems pointless to me. You are only one person, and if you have sworn once, I'm assuming you won't renege on that fealty just because you wearing a different "hat". Makes me a bit crazy.

Re: I do notice

[ladybirdkiller]

I have to disagree. The oathes are different and I believe that to many people they do mean different things. and unless you just called up all peers as a single group, there would be some element of "you swore with x group and not y group and therefore you obviously value that peerage more"

Re: I do notice

[gwyneth1362]

That always becomes my question - if I am only going to swear once, do I pick Pelicans or Royal Peers? The oaths are different, and I can't say that one is more important to me than the other - they have similar, but different roles in my head. So I always swear both.

Re: I do notice

[krkhst]

Ok, so if fealty is *different* - which having different oaths implies - how is it different? What can one group get away with that another can't based on their oathes? And if the anser is "well - nothing." then what that says to me is that fealty is all the same and perhaps there should just be one oath, and everyone should say it at one time and thank the gods that would make things shorter in court....

[saraidh]

I've become much more consciously aware of the rituals around swearing fealty since stepping up. Ilya and I memorized the oath, but have never really gotten a chance to do it from memory, so I notice which groups have made that effort. (I also frequently have the sort of view that lets me see when certain orders appear to be swearing from memory but are actually reading off somebody's Blackberry...)

I don't pay more attention to the knights than any other group. I notice that no one swears alone when people either forget or make a big deal about it. And yes, I notice when people swear multiple times.

[spot1111]

Yes, no, yes, no.

I believe the oaths need to be said out loud as frequently as possible to remind us all of what we strive for. The twice-yearly affirmation of the words of the oaths does not replace the living examples of the oaths but it does add an awsome ceremony to the courts, imho.

well

[faheud]

Do the Knights swearing make any more of an impression on you than the other Orders?

Do you notice that in some Orders, no one swears alone?

Do you notice if someone swears multiple times?

It is more the conduct of the peers after they are in fealty that I tend to notice. As well as how the crowns reward the fealty provided.

I can recall a number of occasions where some orders chewed themselves to shreds arguing over fealty oaths, methods, group--or not etc. That part I find the most depressing of all.

An oath taken in a snit or under duress is not an oath it is theatre

Re: well

[gwyneth1362]

You might have seen the recent conversation which sparked my questions; since people were talking about how it affected the populace, I thought I would see how those not involved felt.

Re: well

[faheud]

hmm. no... haven't seen any conversation... is it happening again? I was referring to a few years back, and a few years before that

Re: well

[gwyneth1362]

Yes, sadly. I've seen it many times myself. Interesting, from an outsiders point of view. :-)