Elizabeth Weir is no shrinking violet. Nor is John Sheppard an alpha male.
Okay, I love John. I do. But he's not exactly the type to kowtow to hierarchical structures, and that's not because he's of the opinion that he should be in charge of said structures. It's because he thinks that his way is the right way, and damn the authority or the bureaucracy that's getting in the way of doing what he feels is the right thing.
I mean, Hot Zone? Pretty much lays that on the line for us in first season. Early on in season one, for that matter.
I don't think John ever wanted to be in charge of the military on Atlantis. I think it's one of the best things to happen to him, though (poor Sumner!), because he did come into his own as a commander. (Though I'm handwaving the fact that he's both in charge of the military, and on a team that goes into danger on a regular basis. I mean, for crying out loud, what if something happens to him? But whatever. Stupid show conventions.)
John is forceful and protective when those he cares for are in danger. Absolutely. Sure. No doubts about it. But he's also the type to listen to others, and he's sure not your typical grunty my-way-or-the-highway stereotype. He didn't run off in the Siege trilogy to go on a suicide mission all on his lonesome.
He actually talked to Elizabeth first. I think that's a hallmark of how much he trusts her. He trusts her to be in charge. Of him. He trusts her to listen to him, and consider what he's saying, and then, when she's convinced he's doing the right thing, she lets him do it. He trusts her enough to listen to her judgment of what the right thing is.
That's one of the chief draws of Sheppard/Weir for me. They communicate really well.
Elizabeth isn't a shrinking violet either. She walked into enemy territory willingly during the Siege. She stands up to Caldwell (and the Goa'uld she didn't know about) and all his attempts to usurp her authority. She does it all with grace and diplomacy, and ties everyone's brain into knots by talking them in circles.
(I don't care if you didn't see it on screen all the time. For God's sake, would you like me to point out all the inconsistency in everyone's characterization, and how everyone's inconsistent at various times in service of The Great And Hallowed Plot? She did it enough for me to accept it as fact.)
So anyway, from the very first episode, Elizabeth challenges John, yes, but while challenging him, she listens to him, and when she disagrees, she tells him. I like that. I like that a lot. In Hot Zone, when John ignores her and goes to do his own thing, he betrays the trust she's given him. I love that Elizabeth has no qualms about letting him know that.
I love that Elizabeth has the courage to go to Atlantis, into the great unknown, armed with only her mind. I love that she's a lead female character who thinks. I love that she's spiritual, without being overtly religious.
(I feel like bringing religion into a story without doing it well is like beating me upside the head with proseltyzing, and I've had PLENTY of that in Catholic school, thanks much. Plus I don't really trust the Gateverse to handle modern religion well. That's a topic for a separate meta, probably called Why The Ori Need To DIAF And Just Go Away, aka, Please Stop With Your Metaphor Already, Gateverse Writers.)
It's amazing how Elizabeth is a leader who isn't an action figure. She can be empathetic with others, and yet, she can also have the flaw of being unable to express her own feelings in a romantic relationship. She's the kind of person that I always relate to more. She's the one who doesn't need to be able to kick ass and take names, not physically. She doesn't show fear easily, not even when someone has a gun pointed at her. She admits when she's not okay. She solves problems intellectually.
She's not passive. Elizabeth takes action as needed. She explores each and every possible avenue. She exhausts all her options. She waits for the right opportunity, and she takes it, and she doesn't give up. Ever. Her capacity for hope, and for understanding, that's all matched (not to mention supported) by a tenacity that allows her to find a way to overcome any challenge.
(I like the brainy female types over the brawny types, though I like the brawny female types too. In first season BtVS, I was all about Willow or Jenny, not Buffy. It's why I imprinted so very much on Natalie in Forever Knight. On Farscape, I was deeply fascinated by everything about Zhaan. Still am, really, but I got traumatized and sad. Oy. OH, ZHAAN. Also, oh, Farscape, how I love you and your female characters that are all perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. But that's another meta entirely. Again.)
This is all leading up to the fact that Elizabeth and John have a relationship of equals, whatever sort of relationship you see them as having, whether it be romantic or friends. I don't see Elizabeth caving to John's forcefulness just because he's forceful. I don't see John being forceful for no good reason, or not explaining things to Elizabeth. They trust each other too much not to work together, and whatever your feelings on John and Elizabeth, I can point you at a lot of examples in canon where they do, in fact, work together.
Which is why, when I'm haunting the annals of Sheppard/Weir fic archives, I get really freaking tired of stumbling across stories where Elizabeth is a stereotypical romance novel heroine who stands up to John only until the point where he turns into a stereotypical alpha male and tells her what she's going to do. DEAR GODS, PEOPLE. John Sheppard's overwhelming maleness will not, in fact, make Elizabeth start to do things his way. Testosterone doesn't work like that.
This is a common plaint of mine. I know. I'm tired of people who read romance novels applying those clichés to characters who fit different tropes. I mean, come on, guys, Elizabeth and John are science fiction heroes. Don't treat them like characters in a romance novel.
Hell, even if you're writing a romance novel AU, don't treat them like the trashiest of Harlequin characters, with John having a massively overwhelming male presence, and Elizabeth's bosom heaving simply because he's there and he's attractive. It's possible to write it well, and to avoid Elizabeth giving in to John simply because he, I don't know, lifts her up on the kitchen counter and starts kissing her senseless. Estrogen doesn't work like that either. (Yes, Miera, I'm thinking of that story you wrote. It doesn't treat them like the trashiest of Harlequin characters. In case I wasn't clear.)
This whole meta can be boiled down to the fact that I believe Elizabeth and John trust and respect each other, and have developed a relationship where they each respect the other's right to make their own decisions.
Honestly. Why is it that irritation on my part ends up producing the most meta? Right. So, since I'm making this a public post, not locked or filtered, I'm going to say a few other things:
1. No, I'm not going to tell you what story was the tipping point in my irritation and resulted in this meta. In case you were curious.
2. If you feel the need to comment on how awful Elizabeth, John, or Elizabeth/John is, please don't bother.
3. I like female characters. If you feel like trashing female characters in this post, once again, please don't bother. (If you like trashing female characters, WTF are you doing reading my journal? This journal is pretty much Women Are Awesome Central.)
4. I'm not trying to compare Teyla negatively to Elizabeth, though she's the action-oriented female character of Atlantis, compared to Elizabeth's approach to challenges. I'm talking about Elizabeth, not Teyla. So don't bother trying to trash Teyla either. I adore her.
5. None of the above should be taken as a challenge to comment on them anyway, despite my saying it's a horrifically bad idea.
I mean, Hot Zone? Pretty much lays that on the line for us in first season. Early on in season one, for that matter.
I don't think John ever wanted to be in charge of the military on Atlantis. I think it's one of the best things to happen to him, though (poor Sumner!), because he did come into his own as a commander. (Though I'm handwaving the fact that he's both in charge of the military, and on a team that goes into danger on a regular basis. I mean, for crying out loud, what if something happens to him? But whatever. Stupid show conventions.)
John is forceful and protective when those he cares for are in danger. Absolutely. Sure. No doubts about it. But he's also the type to listen to others, and he's sure not your typical grunty my-way-or-the-highway stereotype. He didn't run off in the Siege trilogy to go on a suicide mission all on his lonesome.
He actually talked to Elizabeth first. I think that's a hallmark of how much he trusts her. He trusts her to be in charge. Of him. He trusts her to listen to him, and consider what he's saying, and then, when she's convinced he's doing the right thing, she lets him do it. He trusts her enough to listen to her judgment of what the right thing is.
That's one of the chief draws of Sheppard/Weir for me. They communicate really well.
Elizabeth isn't a shrinking violet either. She walked into enemy territory willingly during the Siege. She stands up to Caldwell (and the Goa'uld she didn't know about) and all his attempts to usurp her authority. She does it all with grace and diplomacy, and ties everyone's brain into knots by talking them in circles.
(I don't care if you didn't see it on screen all the time. For God's sake, would you like me to point out all the inconsistency in everyone's characterization, and how everyone's inconsistent at various times in service of The Great And Hallowed Plot? She did it enough for me to accept it as fact.)
So anyway, from the very first episode, Elizabeth challenges John, yes, but while challenging him, she listens to him, and when she disagrees, she tells him. I like that. I like that a lot. In Hot Zone, when John ignores her and goes to do his own thing, he betrays the trust she's given him. I love that Elizabeth has no qualms about letting him know that.
I love that Elizabeth has the courage to go to Atlantis, into the great unknown, armed with only her mind. I love that she's a lead female character who thinks. I love that she's spiritual, without being overtly religious.
(I feel like bringing religion into a story without doing it well is like beating me upside the head with proseltyzing, and I've had PLENTY of that in Catholic school, thanks much. Plus I don't really trust the Gateverse to handle modern religion well. That's a topic for a separate meta, probably called Why The Ori Need To DIAF And Just Go Away, aka, Please Stop With Your Metaphor Already, Gateverse Writers.)
It's amazing how Elizabeth is a leader who isn't an action figure. She can be empathetic with others, and yet, she can also have the flaw of being unable to express her own feelings in a romantic relationship. She's the kind of person that I always relate to more. She's the one who doesn't need to be able to kick ass and take names, not physically. She doesn't show fear easily, not even when someone has a gun pointed at her. She admits when she's not okay. She solves problems intellectually.
She's not passive. Elizabeth takes action as needed. She explores each and every possible avenue. She exhausts all her options. She waits for the right opportunity, and she takes it, and she doesn't give up. Ever. Her capacity for hope, and for understanding, that's all matched (not to mention supported) by a tenacity that allows her to find a way to overcome any challenge.
(I like the brainy female types over the brawny types, though I like the brawny female types too. In first season BtVS, I was all about Willow or Jenny, not Buffy. It's why I imprinted so very much on Natalie in Forever Knight. On Farscape, I was deeply fascinated by everything about Zhaan. Still am, really, but I got traumatized and sad. Oy. OH, ZHAAN. Also, oh, Farscape, how I love you and your female characters that are all perfectly capable of taking care of themselves. But that's another meta entirely. Again.)
This is all leading up to the fact that Elizabeth and John have a relationship of equals, whatever sort of relationship you see them as having, whether it be romantic or friends. I don't see Elizabeth caving to John's forcefulness just because he's forceful. I don't see John being forceful for no good reason, or not explaining things to Elizabeth. They trust each other too much not to work together, and whatever your feelings on John and Elizabeth, I can point you at a lot of examples in canon where they do, in fact, work together.
Which is why, when I'm haunting the annals of Sheppard/Weir fic archives, I get really freaking tired of stumbling across stories where Elizabeth is a stereotypical romance novel heroine who stands up to John only until the point where he turns into a stereotypical alpha male and tells her what she's going to do. DEAR GODS, PEOPLE. John Sheppard's overwhelming maleness will not, in fact, make Elizabeth start to do things his way. Testosterone doesn't work like that.
This is a common plaint of mine. I know. I'm tired of people who read romance novels applying those clichés to characters who fit different tropes. I mean, come on, guys, Elizabeth and John are science fiction heroes. Don't treat them like characters in a romance novel.
Hell, even if you're writing a romance novel AU, don't treat them like the trashiest of Harlequin characters, with John having a massively overwhelming male presence, and Elizabeth's bosom heaving simply because he's there and he's attractive. It's possible to write it well, and to avoid Elizabeth giving in to John simply because he, I don't know, lifts her up on the kitchen counter and starts kissing her senseless. Estrogen doesn't work like that either. (Yes, Miera, I'm thinking of that story you wrote. It doesn't treat them like the trashiest of Harlequin characters. In case I wasn't clear.)
This whole meta can be boiled down to the fact that I believe Elizabeth and John trust and respect each other, and have developed a relationship where they each respect the other's right to make their own decisions.
Honestly. Why is it that irritation on my part ends up producing the most meta? Right. So, since I'm making this a public post, not locked or filtered, I'm going to say a few other things:
1. No, I'm not going to tell you what story was the tipping point in my irritation and resulted in this meta. In case you were curious.
2. If you feel the need to comment on how awful Elizabeth, John, or Elizabeth/John is, please don't bother.
3. I like female characters. If you feel like trashing female characters in this post, once again, please don't bother. (If you like trashing female characters, WTF are you doing reading my journal? This journal is pretty much Women Are Awesome Central.)
4. I'm not trying to compare Teyla negatively to Elizabeth, though she's the action-oriented female character of Atlantis, compared to Elizabeth's approach to challenges. I'm talking about Elizabeth, not Teyla. So don't bother trying to trash Teyla either. I adore her.
5. None of the above should be taken as a challenge to comment on them anyway, despite my saying it's a horrifically bad idea.