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borgmama1of5 October 15 2012, 03:01:38 UTC
"you're just as screwed up as I am. You're just...bigger."

I just loved that line...for one moment, they were back to being the brothers from the beginning...

I also really liked this episode for how it really emotionally tortures Dean. I guess that makes me awfully heartless... :)

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hells_half_acre October 15 2012, 03:17:10 UTC
I also really liked this episode for how it really emotionally tortures Dean. I guess that makes me awfully heartless... :)

Haha, no, it just makes you a Supernatural fan ;)

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missyjack October 15 2012, 05:05:34 UTC
mmm thinking a lot (in light of S8) about the boys reaction to "monsters". Obviosuly their views come from different places - given that Sam has seen hismelf as a "monster" at different times. Dean of course was bought up on a very black andwhite monster bad rhetoirc by John, which has been challlenged by his experiences over recent years. Although its deeply enough ingrained that he was willing to kill Sam twice when he thought he was a monster. And then his experience with Cas obv hurt his trust in...welll everything. And while Sam has been shown to be more open to consider a monster doesn't have to be a killer (or be killed!), there are times like this when he doesn't hesitate.

Ummm no conclusions just thinking outloud really - but I suppsoe if the Show is "saying" anything , it is that we do make exceptions for those we are about...sometimes.

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hells_half_acre October 15 2012, 05:44:45 UTC
Yeah, it's a very interesting point to think about. I don't really think the show has even come up with any firm conclusions one way or the other - besides, of course, that there is no such thing as black and white... it might be what we crave, but every character who has ever had a firm black and white stance has always proven to either be not-good, or they've had that belief tested to the point where they really can no longer believe it.

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missyjack October 15 2012, 05:55:30 UTC
Yes - I agree! I think the show has been great at making the audience think "what would you do?" And , of example with Amy, how do you make a decision? It was fascinating to see the reasons fans gave for and against killing her. if anything I think the Show deonstrates the difficulties/dangers of thinking you can have moral framework that will fit all situations.

We're supposed tos truggle with this Sam said back in S2, and maybe thats the key, that it's actions which arise without considering possible alternative paths or outcomes that are the wrong thing to do.

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hells_half_acre October 15 2012, 06:33:29 UTC
We're supposed tos truggle with this Sam said back in S2, and maybe thats the key, that it's actions which arise without considering possible alternative paths or outcomes that are the wrong thing to do.

Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. If there's any message that Supernatural is trying to get across on this topic, I think it is this one.

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percysowner October 15 2012, 16:46:02 UTC
I remembered that Sam's reaction to John's death was to throw himself into hunting, in a weird attempt to please his father posthumously. In 7x11, we got Sam trying to save someone else to possibly make up for the fact that he couldn't save Bobby. Sam's whole character centers around a constant desire for redemption and atonement - so throwing himself back into hunting would make sense even after Bobby's death IF he were going after cases that in some way reminded him of Bobby...like, for instance, if he caught wind of this case not because some single-guy got offed, but because two fathers had been killed (and Sam just didn't realize yet that they had been having affairs). I think that would nicely tie in SAM'S grieving process with the need for MOTW episodes.

Sadly completely unlike his grieving/coping mechanism in the current season. I love your analysis, BTW, it's just that currently it's being thrown under the bus, like Sam.

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nanloo October 15 2012, 18:10:06 UTC
Once again a sucky episode with a callback to that great episode 'The Benders'.

Sorry for a Buffy reference, but you forgot that Prof. Morrison was Buffy's Mayor Richard Wilkes.

I think that Lydia made Dean 'forget' to wear a condom, because she WANTED to get pregnant.

That is all I got, bring on the good stuff, I mean episode.

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hells_half_acre October 15 2012, 19:41:57 UTC
Sorry for a Buffy reference, but you forgot that Prof. Morrison was Buffy's Mayor Richard Wilkes.

Can't forget if I don't know!

I think that Lydia made Dean 'forget' to wear a condom, because she WANTED to get pregnant.

Yeah, there are a lot of ways she could have done it. She could have also put the condom on him herself and while she was down there pierced the rubber with something. She WAS the one in control after all. Dean would have probably been too overwhelmed to make sure things had been done properly.

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nanloo October 15 2012, 19:49:40 UTC
"Can't forget if I don't know!"
HaHa, so true.

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