"Lifestyle choice," jumped out at me, too, especially when hearing the joking offer of marriage counseling from Tony.
However, given that the phrase "lifestyle choice" is mostly used in a gay rights context, if we shift the entire conversation into that arena, it becomes something else: we get a dialogue of self-questioning and self-acceptance. This is the conversation where Danny flat out says that he's comfortable with their relationship, that he's not sure it's permanent, but that he likes it, and it feels good. And Steve agrees.
It took me a few rounds of love-to-anger-to-love to reach this conclusion, but I think that it's a good place to let it stand.
The writers on this show are not known for their good word choices (Topper, anyone?) but "lifestyle choice" is such a loaded phrase that there's no way they can be immune to what it actually means. At least, I hope not. Then again, I don't actually trust the H50 writers all that much.
This is interesting. There is a lot of gay subtext in this show; it's harder to see whether that is intentional subtext or accidental subtext. I wasn't a fan of the scene you are talking about (I know, I must be the only one in fandom) because it didn't work for me, but moments like it occur frequently in this show.
It actually makes me happy (but I definitely concede YMMV) that there are no open references to LGBT/LGBT characters because it saves the writers from having to take a stand one way or another. As a show that feels remarkably safe for me as a woman, and relatively better with race and gender than most (that is not saying they are good!), I like this kind of Chinese Wall insulation, although I know it's problematic in its own right. For a show marketing itself at conservative men, it's easy to watch for a liberal woman.
"Lifestyle choice" is associated with some (US) gay rights dialogue, but not exclusively so. It's also associated with pro-life dialogue, for instance. That said, I hear you, and it's an interesting
I don't think I'd be as bothered by the lack of queer characters if we didn't every so often get episodes like the Valentines Day one where we are reminded so forcefully that every. single. character. is straight. (Steve and Catherine, Danny mentions gabby for the first time in months, Lori and her unrequited love for Steve, Chin and Malia. the only one exempt from having an actual significant other is Kono, but she's still giving advice to Chin about how to behave with Malia on valentines day
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I do agree that the show is heterosexist, less so than other shows, but yes, absolutely. And that is annoying, but also unavoidable (it would be off the air if it weren't.) Not a good deal, I know, but a realistic one
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With respect, I'm not sure where you get that Danny is canonically Atheist. Granted, he's not shown actively going to Church or Temple, & it hasn't been stated what religion the character is supposed to be or whether he actively practices that religion or not, but there also was the scene in Powa Maka Moana where Danny got down on his knees, with his hands clasped as if praying & he looked up at the sky & asked "Why?", like he was asking God.
He did that after Steve used the hand grenade to open the door to the clerk's office/room in Lono's Pawn Shop because they were trying to interrogate the guy about the rich kids' kidnapping from the party/tour boat & he wouldn't let them go into that room to investigate/interrogate him. I'm not sure that bit of scene business means we're supposed to think Danny is an Atheist.
This is a really interesting reading, because the gay subtext jumps out to me like whoa and most of the time I feel it's positive in that there is a great intimacy and love between Danny and Steve that is both said outloud in a platonic way and kept quiet between the lines in a queer way
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I agree that the way Steve and Danny's relationship is portrayed carries a lot of good subtext.
I think my issues come into play when they make the overt jokes as opposed to just showing us the relationship. In two of the three marriage jokes, they shut up really quickly after the reference is made, which to me indicates that they don't want that particular joke being made. This could be any number of reasons, but one of the top-contenders is shame. Only in the one on monday did they not quickly shut up and change the topic. Which is interesting, given the discussion above.
I'll point to White Collar as an example of a show that has a canon queer character AND a lot of positive subtext in terms of the relationships presented. It's not impossible to have it both ways -- in WC, the central story is the relationship between Neal and Peter, but you also have Diana, a secondary character who is canonically queer, and presented in a positive light. She just got engaged to her girlfriend.
I don't agree with the top contender being shame, considering the fact that they've reached a place in their relationship where they're comfortable with that kind of discourse I'd my choice would probably be confusion. I doubt either one of them has ever had a chemistry like this with another man, ever, they very easily and casually profess their love and affection to each other
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Interesting that you read Neal/Peter similarly to Jack/Ianto, because I never made that comparison. (and I think the power difference is what contributes to the WC fandom being fairly obsessed with slave AUs and D/s themes in fic, at least on the kinkmeme, neither of which I'm very fond of.)
I'm fairly sure a good chunk of my frustration with H50 (and WC) is that they're heavily promoted as "bromance" but no one ever EVER crosses that line. I think we're meant to read the subtext, as slash isn't exactly an underground thing anymore, but at the same time, our interpretation is deliberately made to feel other with the constant heteronormative reminders. Of course, none of this is specific to either show, but it's fairly pervasive in the industry in general. Just once I want a show to cross that line. Right now we get a promotion of the idea that it's ok for men to be open and honest about their affection for each other, so long as it doesn't stray into a sexual territory. It's progress of a sort.
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However, given that the phrase "lifestyle choice" is mostly used in a gay rights context, if we shift the entire conversation into that arena, it becomes something else: we get a dialogue of self-questioning and self-acceptance. This is the conversation where Danny flat out says that he's comfortable with their relationship, that he's not sure it's permanent, but that he likes it, and it feels good. And Steve agrees.
This!
And of course, the adorable fidgety toes. :-)
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The writers on this show are not known for their good word choices (Topper, anyone?) but "lifestyle choice" is such a loaded phrase that there's no way they can be immune to what it actually means. At least, I hope not. Then again, I don't actually trust the H50 writers all that much.
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It actually makes me happy (but I definitely concede YMMV) that there are no open references to LGBT/LGBT characters because it saves the writers from having to take a stand one way or another. As a show that feels remarkably safe for me as a woman, and relatively better with race and gender than most (that is not saying they are good!), I like this kind of Chinese Wall insulation, although I know it's problematic in its own right. For a show marketing itself at conservative men, it's easy to watch for a liberal woman.
"Lifestyle choice" is associated with some (US) gay rights dialogue, but not exclusively so. It's also associated with pro-life dialogue, for instance. That said, I hear you, and it's an interesting
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He did that after Steve used the hand grenade to open the door to the clerk's office/room in Lono's Pawn Shop because they were trying to interrogate the guy about the rich kids' kidnapping from the party/tour boat & he wouldn't let them go into that room to investigate/interrogate him. I'm not sure that bit of scene business means we're supposed to think Danny is an Atheist.
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I think my issues come into play when they make the overt jokes as opposed to just showing us the relationship. In two of the three marriage jokes, they shut up really quickly after the reference is made, which to me indicates that they don't want that particular joke being made. This could be any number of reasons, but one of the top-contenders is shame. Only in the one on monday did they not quickly shut up and change the topic. Which is interesting, given the discussion above.
I'll point to White Collar as an example of a show that has a canon queer character AND a lot of positive subtext in terms of the relationships presented. It's not impossible to have it both ways -- in WC, the central story is the relationship between Neal and Peter, but you also have Diana, a secondary character who is canonically queer, and presented in a positive light. She just got engaged to her girlfriend.
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I'm fairly sure a good chunk of my frustration with H50 (and WC) is that they're heavily promoted as "bromance" but no one ever EVER crosses that line. I think we're meant to read the subtext, as slash isn't exactly an underground thing anymore, but at the same time, our interpretation is deliberately made to feel other with the constant heteronormative reminders. Of course, none of this is specific to either show, but it's fairly pervasive in the industry in general. Just once I want a show to cross that line. Right now we get a promotion of the idea that it's ok for men to be open and honest about their affection for each other, so long as it doesn't stray into a sexual territory. It's progress of a sort.
And yes, you may friend me. :)
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