(Untitled)

[hweyernc]

just a quick update. I've been really busy investigating churches and stuff... and thus far LDS is still holding strong in the running. One of the big reasons is NO ORIGINAL SIN! I really like this idea. It has always sort of bothered me that anyone could honestly believe that a little baby could come into the world anything other than totally

Comments

[njordsifusansoo]

It depends on how you define original sin. From the ELCA site (its a google cache link since elca's site seems to be down atm), "the term "original sin" connotes that sin is "original" to humanity and is the "base line" for the sinful things all people do." We are not born with the sins of Adam (and Eve) on our slate, instead we are just sinful beings by nature. So baby's are born innocent.

If you read on in that article, you also get some of the Lutheran beliefs on forgiveness (God is a forgiving being ready to forgive us even before we seek it, we can confess directly to God instead of using an intermediary, etc.).

[hweyernc]

hmm... sounds interesting. I think I'll check that out.

[kittehkat]

Oh, Adam, no! Don't get sucked into their horrible little bubble! They thrive on new meat, but they're entirely too cliqueish and fake! They force their women into submission and make them think that higher education isn't for them! What's wrong with not believing in Christ, as it is, anyhow? Eh?

[spastichick]

so this comment REALLY cracked me up. I'm not gonna touch the first part (though I agree the closer you get to utah the worse 'bubble syndrome' gets- its virtually impossible to maintain the farther out you get though...) but dude, if 'they force their women into submission and make them think that higher education isn't for them', they SOOOO blew it with me. LOL. heheheheheh

[kittehkat]

Well, the Mormon church and I used to be friends, from the age of 3, when my family converted, to the age of, meh, 14 or so. Then, after I realized I'd have to be a part of Young Women and learn to serve men, as well as prepare for a family, and drop college to go on a mission, I became haphazard about religion altogether, renouncing Christianity for quite some time. I know wards can affect it, too, and I honestly think if I had stayed where I lived and with the girls I grew up with, I'd have been fine, but we moved, to a super-hick super-conservative area (actually, the ward was rather dumb, as it was formed by people of totally different economical and financial standings), in which everyone was super cliqueish, the missionaries unfriendly (I didn't even know that could happen), and a divided tribe, so to say

[miwasatoshi]

That sounds like a bad ward. I never had that sort of icky feeling with my friends in Chandler 9th Ward. Heck, one of the bishops ran Dungeons and Dragons sessions. Maybe the East Valley is more progressive (though that's really funny because in the 90s that particular ward was half rural).

[inagawayuu]

Not to diss religion or LDS, because I know many Mormons very devoted to their faith, but I do question your motives for wanting to join the LDS church out of concern.

This isnt coming across as a search to find a better connection to God and Spirituality, or even questioning of faith, but more of some kind of shopping spree, where your beliefs in Judisam are like a worn out pair of jeans and you need to get a new pair so you want a new brand (LDS).

Near as I could tell when I talked to you over the holidays, you were not having any crisis of faith in regards to your religious beliefs, and this really is coming from out of nowhere.

[hweyernc]

*hugs* thank you for your concern, and I'm sorry if this doesn't seem to be coming across appropriately or whatever (and that could be because I'm a few hundred miles away or whatever)... but how it looked to others wasn't really my primary concern.

My spiritual concerns have long been something that I'll seldom talk about in full with anyone but my immediate family... and even then it is usually just my mom.

So if you really want to hear about it gimmie a call... or maybe I'll just call you... but I think it is something better discussed over the phone.

Just a note

[miwasatoshi]

There is archaeological proof of the events of the Torah, the New Testament of the Bible, the Koran, and the histories of the Buddha.

There is NO archaeological proof of the existence of Jesus Christ in North America, NO archaeological proof that there were any "white people" in North America prior to Leif Ericsson and the Vikings in the 1100s, and utterly no basis for the assertion that the LDS Church has any traditions that date from prior to the "revelations" of Joseph Smith in the 19th century. No evidence exists of the plates ... and yet we have the Dead Sea Scrolls, which date to a much older time.

====

That being said, many of the tenets of the faith are very fundamentally sound (especially those of service) but just be mindful of why you are seeking faith, is it for the sake of faith itself, or for more worldly reasons?

If you're going to become a Latter Day Saint, don't do it for superficial reasons. The last thing this world needs is another Jack Mormon.

Re: Just a note

[spastichick]

Not to be combative in any way, shape or form, however, if you are going to make a claim that there is NO archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon I would highly recommend doing some homework, and I do think you will find that you are mistaken. I can recommend some excellent websites if you are interested.

Re: Just a note

[hweyernc]

No worries about being superficial. Do I really strike you as a superficial person? Answer me that honestly... because if I do I'd really like to know.

I wear my heart on my sleave already so there really isn't room for me to wear my spiritual stuff out there as well *wink*.

As for whether there is archaeological proof or not... I don't really care. I don't know on an intellectual level right now if it is true or not... but I know that it is good... and that's enough for now.

hey Fly

[blake2283]

Yeah, it depends on how you define orginal sin. That is what's important. I'll continue to check up and talk to you whenever i get a chance, but work has kept me busy and exhausted. Take care friend.