Brain-food via Mimi Smartypants. YES I HAVE BEEN AWAKE SINCE 0725 OW

[idoru]

An article i think many of you might find interesting -- Raising Children With Secular Values in a Religious WorldA good chunk of this resonated with me, as i was raised not going to church. And yet! i have morals and values! i wouldn't necessarily call myself an atheist, and the 'committed secularist' title has a strange ring to it. i have

Comments

[jinii_chan]

Instead of writing an Icelandic Lit paper (oops!), I read the article, and I would have to say that it makes a lot of sense to me. I liked her sense of humour too, although I'm sure a ton of people would be offended

[idoru]

It seems that with book-intelligence comes two scenarios: firm atheism [who can prove God? Well then.] and firm faith. Personally, i think informed and questioned faith is a beautiful thing, and something many people need, and it's more than just giving yourself a metaphysical band-aid and lollipop. People turn to religion, philosophy, science, hell, even escapism to try and make their lives make sense. People crave meaning, and if religion -- and i'm not talking ecumenical, proselytizing FERVOR, just a belief/faith system -- serves that purpose, more power to them

[fuzzyamy]

Right. Even though I will identify myself as an agnostic every time, I will say that it doesn't take religion to unify people against other people. Godless or near-godless philosophies can serve exactly the same purpose: see militant Marxism, Nazism etc. Blaming unified hatred on religion does seem misplaced.

[ta_rando]

It's kind of strange--wherever I go, I find myself fighting for the underdog. At Biola I'm generally pretty displeased by the religious fervor and lack of thought, but here I am disagreeing with the article. I'm not really sure what I believe at the moment, but I think this article is pretty wrongheaded

[idoru]

i'm definitely not 100% behind her view, or at least her TONE -- she did seem a bit, well, sanctimonious. i don't think a child's reaction to "Do you believe in God" should be all EW NO THAT'S DUMB. Always with the openness to different opinions. i have firm respect and admiration for those with deep faith, for those unafraid to stand behind their faith and argue for it. However, as someone raised with secular morals -- though i was never in any way told there ISN'T a G/god -- i like the idea of raising my children the same way.

[jinii_chan]

*laughs* Yes, her tone was a bit strong. But I don't find that any more offensive than when I come across people trying to convert me to whatever religion they believe. Maybe that's what I find as an absolute "no-no." Religion/faith/whatever is a personal thing, and trying to force someone to believe something--anything, be it that there is a God/god or that there isn't--appears to me like an invasion of privacy (probably why I would let my kid decide for him-/herself), and furthermore, an insult to his/her intelligence, as if s/he couldn't figure out for him-/herself what s/he believes.

[jazzfish]

Science vs religion: as a 'scientist' [one who believes in science?] I'd have to disagree with your characterisation of science as like religion: in particular of it being like "an arrangement of beliefs, whether it conforms to an organized body or not." Science is a working model; it gets revised over time. Bits of it get thrown out when they're shown not to work. It doesn't happen as fast as it ought, maybe, but it /does/ happen. Beliefs change.

And please, please don't raise a child on science fiction and fantasy novels. Man cannot live by pulp alone.

Uh huh. If you believe that all F/SF is "pulp," then we really have nothing to say to each other. [Ursula Le Guin. Orson Scott Card's _Ender's Game_ and _Speaker for the Dead_. _1984_. _Frankenstein_.]

[weeping_angel]

I won't bother responding to this article - Ta_rando already said essentially what I would have said.. .

[idoru]

While i agree that science and religion are equally flawed, you know i've never personally been comfortable with incorporating organized religion/Christianity in my life. Whenever i tried to make sense of it or make it fit, it was a giant, worrisome burden of leaps of faith and Holy Mystery. As always, though, i don't have a problem with those who are religious in their own ways [and don't try to force it on me]. i said the article was food for thought, not Shauna's Stance on Atheism and Child-Rearing. :]

Re: first part of my first sentence -- i in no way consider myself a scientist, but i do admit a love of knowing how things work, seeing empirical evidence. i don't think this needs to apply to religion, but i also do not feel that my life [as raised in a secular environment] is wanting for Jesus, and i know that's just me.

[weeping_angel]

come on - She outright stated that people with faith are stupid.

religion started as a way to explain the world - and science as a way to explain the wonder of creation and the acts of G/god.

knowing how things work is beautiful - i like knowing that sort of thing too - but my faith dosen't cause me any issues in that area.

I think andrew hit the nail on the head in the third and fourth parts of his responce.

[idoru]

As i said to.. Andrew, i think.. i wasn't the biggest fan of her tone, implications, and some of her statements.

Really, i'm not particularly trying to argue this -- i'm sure there have been agnostics and atheists as long as there have been religions. i am not questioning the validity of anyone's faith, nor saying that you can't be both religious AND scientific; there are far too many examples of such people in my life.

Just sayin'. i don't think a church is necessary to make a good person. The Church has always had its flaws, along with every other human organization in the history of ever.