(no subject)
[22:47] toph: i think it'd be kind of - well, almost a Matsuda-ish kind of situation.
[22:47] vashti: Where they can see the angles, but ultimately it's not okay.
[22:49] toph: *nodnods* pretty much.
[22:52] toph: the 'ultimately not okay' bit is probably not as moral as with matsuda. it's more like - she likes the murderers and rapists getting their comeuppance, likes the eradication of war, but doesn't really believe in the utopia part.
[22:52] vashti: *pondering one-handed while also eating caek*
[22:53] toph: ooh, multitasking.
[22:53] vashti: \o/
[22:53] vashti> the punishment aspect is enough for her
[22:53] vashti> but she doesn't think you can change people that way.
[22:54] toph> yeah, exactly.
[22:55] toph> she figures kira would always be around, and she finds the thought kind of comforting. but she doesn't think it'll make a difference to human nature.
[22:55] vashti> she's concerned with the little things.
[22:56] toph> from a kira-ish perspective, sure. :P
[22:56] vashti> I do have that problem. :)
[22:57] toph> but yeah, it's like - kira is a much more reliable death penalty, almost.
[22:58] vashti> there was some stuff implied in the whorefic
[22:58] vashti> where people would think kira would take out prostitutes, but he doesn't
[22:58] vashti> he takes out people who enslave and exploit them.
[22:59] vashti> sees them as victims, on the whole.
[22:59] toph> *nodnod* that's similar to how i saw it in the AU!
[23:00] vashti> actual being-a-whore doesn't catch kira's eye. too small.
[23:00] toph> it's one of the reasons she'd be so positive about kira. suddenly there's someone who goes after the guys who hurt THEM, too.
[23:00] vashti> yess.
[23:00] toph> ~JUSTICE FOR ALL~
[23:00] vashti> (orz)
[23:00] toph> (*snerk*)
[23:02] vashti> but yeah. I was working briefly on a novel concept, for a while.
[23:02] vashti> before I'd seen DN, this was.
[23:02] vashti> about a woman who travelled from place to place, killing rapists.
[23:02] vashti> and I can imagine looking at the prosecution rates, the punishment rates
[23:02] vashti> and then kira comes along, and it's like "my god! someone actually gives a shit!"
[23:03] toph> yeah, exactly.
[23:04] vashti> and it really does split along libertarian vs authoritarian ideology.
[23:04] vashti> is it better to be safe than free?
[23:04] vashti> what is the price? when is it too high?
[23:05] vashti> what is justice?
[23:05] vashti> *rambles*
[23:05] toph> and how people answer really depends on what they've experienced.
[23:05] vashti> yeah. exactly.
[23:06] vashti> like Misa. "Kira punished the men who killed my parents."
[23:06] toph> and the interpretation of kira's ideology - well, you even see in canon that it varies.
[23:06] vashti> yeah.
[23:06] toph> like jesus, in a way
[23:06] toph> (:P)
[23:06] vashti> (*snarf*)
[23:07] vashti> and Light is more careful about it, I think, than he's given credit for.
[23:07] vashti> we hear over and over that there's consideration given to who he writes down.
[23:07] vashti> there are people he *won't* kill.
[23:07] vashti> (the flaw, obviously, is that he's equipped to make those choices, those judgements and decisions.)
[23:08] vashti> (that's the arrogance of it. that he sets himself up to control the world and choose for everyone.)
[23:08] toph> but yeah, that's why au!Matt (who goes by Tilda, even though it's not in the fic) is like 'lol we are fighting for the right to be criminals'. she grew up with civil war, she's been in extremely vulnerable positions. she knows that really, she's probably a lot safer now.
[23:08] toph> BUT SHE'LL DO IT FOR THE LOLZ
[23:08] vashti> :D
[23:08] vashti> she's like "we have the right to make that choice!"
[23:08] vashti> and Light is like "well, actually, no."
[23:09] toph> tbh tilda isn't sure they do either. she wants her debts paid off. and she grows to be pretty loyal to mello.
[23:09] toph> but in the grand scheme of things she thinks they're probably wrong.
[23:09] vashti> :/
[23:11] toph> yeah.
[23:14] toph> (... wow, i guess that makes her an actual kira supporter, huh. o_o)
[23:14] vashti> seems like. :/
[23:15] toph> I LIKE HER ANYWAY.
[23:15] vashti> I like her!
[23:15] toph> :D!
[23:15] vashti> anyway, stalky will cure her.
[23:15] vashti> he's the worst advert for Kira in the multiverse.
[22:47] vashti: Where they can see the angles, but ultimately it's not okay.
[22:49] toph: *nodnods* pretty much.
[22:52] toph: the 'ultimately not okay' bit is probably not as moral as with matsuda. it's more like - she likes the murderers and rapists getting their comeuppance, likes the eradication of war, but doesn't really believe in the utopia part.
[22:52] vashti: *pondering one-handed while also eating caek*
[22:53] toph: ooh, multitasking.
[22:53] vashti: \o/
[22:53] vashti> the punishment aspect is enough for her
[22:53] vashti> but she doesn't think you can change people that way.
[22:54] toph> yeah, exactly.
[22:55] toph> she figures kira would always be around, and she finds the thought kind of comforting. but she doesn't think it'll make a difference to human nature.
[22:55] vashti> she's concerned with the little things.
[22:56] toph> from a kira-ish perspective, sure. :P
[22:56] vashti> I do have that problem. :)
[22:57] toph> but yeah, it's like - kira is a much more reliable death penalty, almost.
[22:58] vashti> there was some stuff implied in the whorefic
[22:58] vashti> where people would think kira would take out prostitutes, but he doesn't
[22:58] vashti> he takes out people who enslave and exploit them.
[22:59] vashti> sees them as victims, on the whole.
[22:59] toph> *nodnod* that's similar to how i saw it in the AU!
[23:00] vashti> actual being-a-whore doesn't catch kira's eye. too small.
[23:00] toph> it's one of the reasons she'd be so positive about kira. suddenly there's someone who goes after the guys who hurt THEM, too.
[23:00] vashti> yess.
[23:00] toph> ~JUSTICE FOR ALL~
[23:00] vashti> (orz)
[23:00] toph> (*snerk*)
[23:02] vashti> but yeah. I was working briefly on a novel concept, for a while.
[23:02] vashti> before I'd seen DN, this was.
[23:02] vashti> about a woman who travelled from place to place, killing rapists.
[23:02] vashti> and I can imagine looking at the prosecution rates, the punishment rates
[23:02] vashti> and then kira comes along, and it's like "my god! someone actually gives a shit!"
[23:03] toph> yeah, exactly.
[23:04] vashti> and it really does split along libertarian vs authoritarian ideology.
[23:04] vashti> is it better to be safe than free?
[23:04] vashti> what is the price? when is it too high?
[23:05] vashti> what is justice?
[23:05] vashti> *rambles*
[23:05] toph> and how people answer really depends on what they've experienced.
[23:05] vashti> yeah. exactly.
[23:06] vashti> like Misa. "Kira punished the men who killed my parents."
[23:06] toph> and the interpretation of kira's ideology - well, you even see in canon that it varies.
[23:06] vashti> yeah.
[23:06] toph> like jesus, in a way
[23:06] toph> (:P)
[23:06] vashti> (*snarf*)
[23:07] vashti> and Light is more careful about it, I think, than he's given credit for.
[23:07] vashti> we hear over and over that there's consideration given to who he writes down.
[23:07] vashti> there are people he *won't* kill.
[23:07] vashti> (the flaw, obviously, is that he's equipped to make those choices, those judgements and decisions.)
[23:08] vashti> (that's the arrogance of it. that he sets himself up to control the world and choose for everyone.)
[23:08] toph> but yeah, that's why au!Matt (who goes by Tilda, even though it's not in the fic) is like 'lol we are fighting for the right to be criminals'. she grew up with civil war, she's been in extremely vulnerable positions. she knows that really, she's probably a lot safer now.
[23:08] toph> BUT SHE'LL DO IT FOR THE LOLZ
[23:08] vashti> :D
[23:08] vashti> she's like "we have the right to make that choice!"
[23:08] vashti> and Light is like "well, actually, no."
[23:09] toph> tbh tilda isn't sure they do either. she wants her debts paid off. and she grows to be pretty loyal to mello.
[23:09] toph> but in the grand scheme of things she thinks they're probably wrong.
[23:09] vashti> :/
[23:11] toph> yeah.
[23:14] toph> (... wow, i guess that makes her an actual kira supporter, huh. o_o)
[23:14] vashti> seems like. :/
[23:15] toph> I LIKE HER ANYWAY.
[23:15] vashti> I like her!
[23:15] toph> :D!
[23:15] vashti> anyway, stalky will cure her.
[23:15] vashti> he's the worst advert for Kira in the multiverse.