by strangeness i mean what used to make the city so special i guess. I'm sure it's very special to those coming there in more recent years, I wouldn't want to take that away from them and their own experience, but as I say above, it now feels totally overrun -in relation to how it was. Of course compared to parts of London on a weekend it's nothing... I've perhaps gone off topic though.
The bit about self-righteousness in incapacity is spot on.
This Sylvestor I saw english speaking hipsters tossing the firecrackers in your general direction as much as lokals.
I'm so glad I missed the Berlin Sylvester. I really can't stand all that aggressive disinhibition. The Germans are great when they're sublimating, terrifying when they aren't.
Islamic superheroes vesus dumbass Mongols
anonymous
January 23 2010, 13:13:02 UTC
A forthcoming Islamic superhero series blames the Mongols for destroying the Library of Wisdom. I wonder if the villians will therefore represent a kind of "Eastern idiocy", perhaps to bypass anti-West cliché. I hope not!
Re: Islamic superheroes vesus dumbass MongolseclectiktronikJanuary 23 2010, 18:31:22 UTC
There is a growing European underclass, the inert matter of the historical process. Apolitical, hedonistic, seeking escape in drink and drugs, shunning community and society (suspecting their neighbours as dole scroungers, or believeing the tabloid myths of 'soft touch society' and immigration) and, in so doing, inevitably feeding the very system that oppresses them. Just look at how uneducated wasters appear on daytime tv shows, reality tv etc. lapping up the chance to be exploited as the production companies make millions.
yes indeed, the poor protect the wealthy. Divide and rule has worked in the north.
makes one wonder if they will ever get organised and form a proletariat. But that would necessitate at least laying off the booze - and switching off the TV. Until either or both are in short supply, the revolution is postponed!
Re: Islamic superheroes vesus dumbass MongolseclectiktronikJanuary 23 2010, 20:45:13 UTC
Absolutely. But I'm not talking about the working class, (a group generally aware of their lot and have a resistant class-consciousness). I'm talking about the marxist term lumpenproletatiat, the 'underclass' I described in general terms above.
>Berliners have a self-righteousness about their incapacity, their unemployment, their non-participation in what they call the Scheisse-System. It's an attitude of arrogance-in-failure you just don't encounter in Asia.
Well, Berlin self-righteousness about not-fitting-in and the London discouragement of recycling and squatting Katherine Hibbert describes are both, in a sense, bad faith positions. Because the consumer society we live in requires both production and waste (or, if you prefer, employment and unemployment). They form a sort of integral yin-yang, taut-slack. The squatter-skipper requires the consumer society to generate waste, and the consumer society should allow the squatter-skipper to utilise waste.
Ultimately, though, humans need to be productive; to make things, and exchange them. This is what I miss somewhat in the West, and find in Asia. Asians are fully aware of the need to produce, to make, to work. In the West we've somehow forgotten it, first of all because of our colonial period, and more recently because of our outsourcing of production to Asia, and our concentration on services and the property bubble to finance ourselves. I should probably add the internet as part of our delusion, our distraction from making things.
Your first paragraph I completely agree with me, and I assumed I'd agree with your second paragraph too. But....
.of our outsourcing of production to Asia, and our concentration on services
I'm a bit surprised at this as you're such a services type person yourself: music and writing, journalism, personal appearances/events etc. Surely there's nothing wrong in moving to a service culture? Does the old division between products and services really mean so much these days?
And:
I should probably add the internet as part of our delusion, our distraction from making things.
?!? You've written very eloquently about the incredible nature of the internet, and you're such an internet person.
Well, yes, but just because I do something, it doesn't mean I think it can't be reproached! All I'm saying, really, is that people who work in services and the internet -- like people who live on recycled waste others generate -- must remember that ours is a frail superstructure rising out of a base of productive labour. We cannot propose our lifestyles as models for all of humanity, because someone, somewhere has to produce. That base is necessary. Our superstructure isn't.
Dickensian turn?
anonymous
January 23 2010, 13:41:42 UTC
Instead of complaining, that the urban poor are so disorganised and fragmented nowadays, so impoverished and neglected that they have become a problem for any class fomation to battle the class struggle from above, you're lamenting how uncivilised they are. Instead of realising, that it's not manners or lectures about manners that poor people need, but overcoming of pauperism and self-contempt to get organised, you choose to critisize the lumpenproletariat. That fits in neatly with Berlin's official stance on the problem, having mayor Wowereit deploring the complacency and non-ambitious attitudes of unemployed and poor people in Berlin. Phrases like "Self-righteousness about their incapacity, their unemployment" are really the worst, most classist I have ever read from you
( ... )
Re: Dickensian turn?imomusJanuary 23 2010, 13:58:32 UTC
it's not manners or lectures about manners that poor people need, but overcoming of pauperism and self-contempt to get organised
The man who tweaked my hat off yesterday had no self-contempt, I can tell you. He and his three friends had organised themselves specifically to get drunk, and at that point had achieved enough pleasant disorganisation to share it (and some vomit, thrown in as a bonus) with those of us who were actually moving about the city with a sense of purpose. They had also obviously spent quite a lot of money on alcohol, so if they were paupers it was only because they'd drunk whatever cash they had.
I make absolutely no apology for admiring the non-alcoholic culture of Muslims.
Commoner Whimsy?jdcastenJanuary 23 2010, 19:18:25 UTC
Accountability to whom? I don’t think you’re talking about the local collective! Those escaping a poor background are the minority, no? I hope you’re not suggesting the poor can’t have dignity!
Are not you and Momus looking at symptom of a “social disease” and blaming the “the victim” of said disease as it were? I mean, there’s no excuse to be rude… but how did these rude folks get there in the first place? Do I hear a “the poor have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps… within an unfair system… and make it by that system’s rules” attitude?
Comments 69
Reply
The bit about self-righteousness in incapacity is spot on.
Reply
I'm so glad I missed the Berlin Sylvester. I really can't stand all that aggressive disinhibition. The Germans are great when they're sublimating, terrifying when they aren't.
Reply
A forthcoming Islamic superhero series blames the Mongols for destroying the Library of Wisdom. I wonder if the villians will therefore represent a kind of "Eastern idiocy", perhaps to bypass anti-West cliché. I hope not!
Reply
yes indeed, the poor protect the wealthy. Divide and rule has worked in the north.
makes one wonder if they will ever get organised and form a proletariat. But that would necessitate at least laying off the booze - and switching off the TV. Until either or both are in short supply, the revolution is postponed!
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
Regarding
>Berliners have a self-righteousness about their incapacity, their unemployment, their non-participation in what they call the Scheisse-System. It's an attitude of arrogance-in-failure you just don't encounter in Asia.
Can I use this as a hook to interest you in a Guardian article on 'Is it possible to live a life without money?' from earlier this month?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/02/katherine-hibbert-living-without-money
It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on this.
Reply
Ultimately, though, humans need to be productive; to make things, and exchange them. This is what I miss somewhat in the West, and find in Asia. Asians are fully aware of the need to produce, to make, to work. In the West we've somehow forgotten it, first of all because of our colonial period, and more recently because of our outsourcing of production to Asia, and our concentration on services and the property bubble to finance ourselves. I should probably add the internet as part of our delusion, our distraction from making things.
Reply
Your first paragraph I completely agree with me, and I assumed I'd agree with your second paragraph too. But....
.of our outsourcing of production to Asia, and our concentration on services
I'm a bit surprised at this as you're such a services type person yourself: music and writing, journalism, personal appearances/events etc. Surely there's nothing wrong in moving to a service culture? Does the old division between products and services really mean so much these days?
And:
I should probably add the internet as part of our delusion, our distraction from making things.
?!? You've written very eloquently about the incredible nature of the internet, and you're such an internet person.
Reply
Reply
Reply
The man who tweaked my hat off yesterday had no self-contempt, I can tell you. He and his three friends had organised themselves specifically to get drunk, and at that point had achieved enough pleasant disorganisation to share it (and some vomit, thrown in as a bonus) with those of us who were actually moving about the city with a sense of purpose. They had also obviously spent quite a lot of money on alcohol, so if they were paupers it was only because they'd drunk whatever cash they had.
I make absolutely no apology for admiring the non-alcoholic culture of Muslims.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Are not you and Momus looking at symptom of a “social disease” and blaming the “the victim” of said disease as it were? I mean, there’s no excuse to be rude… but how did these rude folks get there in the first place? Do I hear a “the poor have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps… within an unfair system… and make it by that system’s rules” attitude?
Maybe I’ve misread?
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment