John and great vs. good

[impulsiveanswer]

Papa Winchester continues to be a driving force in both of his sons' lives.  Here's my take after digesting On the Head of a Pin (so be warned for spoilers through that episode)

Comments

[janissa11]

By far the best meta on Head of a Pin that I've seen, and absolutely fascinating and spot-on insights into all the Winchester men. Thank you.

[impulsiveanswer]

Thank you so much!

[destina]

This was a wonderful piece of meta, and you made some really interesting comparisons.

Castiel only said that the angels laid siege to Hell after Dean got there - he never mentioned anything about John

Hm. I think that's because they didn't know what Lilith was up to until Dean had been down there a while. Castiel explicitly says that when they discovered Lilith's plans for Dean, they laid siege to hell. I assume that had Lilith begun breaking seals while John was there, and the angels realized it, they would have mounted the assault then.

[impulsiveanswer]

That's a valid point; I don't think we'll know what John's role was supposed to be and if he could have broken the seal until we know what Azazel's entire plan was and how active Lilith was while he was still around. I sometimes wonder if those two were consorts, with Lilith taking center stage (and her anger at his death out on the Winchesters) after he died.

[may7fic]

Came here courtesy of smilla02's rec :)

Just a brilliant meta, echoing some of my own thoughts but providing the detail to back them up so very eloquently.

The parallels between John's and Sam's downfalls are so evident to me and I love the way you've laid them out so clearly.

Hopefully, though, Sam can learn from his father’s example and take advantage of the opportunity to rediscover and appreciate his inner goodness; and hopefully Dean can realize he’s a good man in his own right and learn he doesn’t have to live up to any expectations set by John.

From your lj to Kripke's ears, I so hope we get to witness a little more peace and closure for these boys, preferably where they're both left standing side by side on solid ground in the end ;)

Thank-you for this! I hope you don't mind me recc'ing this wonderful meta as well!

[impulsiveanswer]

I don't mind the recc'ing at all :)

From your lj to Kripke's ears, I so hope we get to witness a little more peace and closure for these boys, preferably where they're both left standing side by side on solid ground in the end

I truly believe there can be a satifying ending where both boys area alive, together, and at peace without it being a cheesy happily-ever-after-normal-lives thing (which would feel totally false). I keep telling myself, "I trust Kripke, I trust Kripke..."

[may7fic]

I keep telling myself, "I trust Kripke, I trust Kripke..."

I'm trying to keep the faith but sometimes he makes it so damn hard ::sigh::

[morganslady]

This was a wondeful meta.. John Winchester is truly an extraordinary character. He is felt throughout this show.
I will be sending my LJ flisters here to read your take on him.

[impulsiveanswer]

Definitely. Most writers feel the need to define characters as good or bad; but Kripke created John in a completely human way with the good points and flaws out there unflinchingly and Jeffrey Dean Morgan played out that balance beautifully. It's a very brave way to write and portray a character.

[erinrua]

Wow. You've articulated things, particularly about Sam, that have been rolling nebulously around my brain without any actual words to frame them.

Thank you. This is brilliant and I think spot-on. Saving to mems!

[impulsiveanswer]

Thank you! I think Sam in particular would be shocked to finally find out just how much like his father he is.