How TV fandom, and fanfic, ruined my perfectly good hobby of reading

[indyhat]

(Yes, I wrote an essay. Weird, I know. Moving on.)

So I have some vacation time. And there are bookstores. And I spend maybe three or four hours of said vacation time just browsing the shelves, picking up books that I've heard of, or whose authors I've heard of, and checking them out: is this the kind of book I'm in the mood for?

Comments

[c_quinn]

but the second the author starts writing in the first person as a fictional character, for some reason this seems to be a license to toss out gratuitous adverbs and produce acutely self-conscious prose (these two things are not unrelated, IMO).

I do agree with this. First person is exceedingly difficult to master because it 1). ensures the reader that the narrator will survive and therefore removes all suspense, 2). often relies on cliches, proverbs and other over-used sentiments while trying to appear "normal", 3). offers unreliable views of all other characters since their thoughts are denied and the perspective is skewed.

I don't think having realistic dialog or narrative voice should be too much to ask

Again: agreed. Dialogue drives all stories, for me. If the characters ring false, then the plot will as well. People stutter; they pause; they use contractions. They do not offer perfect, formal sentences (unless it's some alien world where they're trying to sneak into our planet and have learned English from Puritan texts. That'

[indyhat]

First person is exceedingly difficult to master because it 1). ensures the reader that the narrator will survive and therefore removes all suspense, 2). often relies on cliches, proverbs and other over-used sentiments while trying to appear "normal", 3). offers unreliable views of all other characters since their thoughts are denied and the perspective is skewed.

I don't mind the lack of reliability; after all, any narrative that takes place from one character's POV is going to be biased; that's okay. What I mind is where the first-person narrative overreaches into omniscience while pretending not to. And yeah, cliché. Aiii.

Dialogue drives all stories, for me. If the characters ring false, then the plot will as well. People stutter; they pause; they use contractions. They do not offer perfect, formal sentences

See, there is work I'll let off the hook on that score, but it's largely televisual. The West Wing. House. Deadwood. Not very much stuttering goes on, and yet long, intricate, devastating, funny sentences are delivered in a

[c_quinn]

But sure, when I've written it, you can cast it for me :)

I've already got the cast in mind so get to it. ;)

And ElfQuest. I was young and impressionable, okay?.

... Dude.

Thing is, I prefer moral greyness, and comics have a tendency to have bad guys who, though they may be interesting, are still fairly definitively Bad Guys.

I'm going to have to give you a list of things to read then. You need to broaden your horizons (which may be an innuendo. I'm not sure).

[indyhat]

I've already got the cast in mind so get to it. ;)

Hee.

... Dude.

Did I mention young and impressionable? And in love with the guy who introduced me to them. Boy, am I over that. On both counts.

I'm going to have to give you a list of things to read then. You need to broaden your horizons (which may be an innuendo. I'm not sure).

*snerk* Go ahead! I suspect I'd like The Dark Knight, f'rex, though I've never really been blown away by language use in a graphic novel the way I am by essays and screenplays.

[hano]

I'm a little distracted atm, so do don't have time to do this post justice, but you might enjoy Thomas Pynchon. Specifically Vineland - very much my Desert Island Book. In a more general sense... hmmmm... I really don't know, I'll think about it.

[indyhat]

'm a little distracted atm

As you should be. Shoo! Shoo! Go ... play ;)

you might enjoy Thomas Pynchon. Specifically Vineland - very much my Desert Island Book

Thanks, I'll look into that. And do think about it, but not now. Shoo, I say!

[visiblemarket]

Though thinking about it, isn't there a Heroes novel? Has anyone read it?

I believe lotus0kid did, and I've heard semi-decent things about it. Also that it doesn't so much fit with canon, but eh, canon hardly ever fit with canon on that show, so what can you do.

I kind of felt the same way about fiction for a few years; since high school, especially. I just didn't have time for it. And since I started my own whatever efforts at writing, trying to read real live novels tended just end with me analyzing other people's writing and pointing out what I felt were rookie mistakes. In fanfic world. *laughs*

But lately I've gotten some enjoyment out of the most random novels. I had a really good time with Maurice, by EM Forester, which is old-ish but doesn't read like it; The Picture of Dorian Grey, which was a lot of fun just despite having no characters I actually cared about, and The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. What all these have in common is that in my mind they become super slashy. Which I am kind of ashamed of, but hey, it's

[indyhat]

I believe lotus0kid did, and I've heard semi-decent things about it.

Huh. Maybe I should pick it up in a bookstore so I can mock it in a more informed manner know whereof I speak.

Also that it doesn't so much fit with canon, but eh, canon hardly ever fit with canon on that show, so what can you do.

LOL! Indeed. Heroes was retconned up the wazoo in the later seasons. Sad.

And since I started my own whatever efforts at writing, trying to read real live novels tended just end with me analyzing other people's writing and pointing out what I felt were rookie mistakes. In fanfic world. *laughs*Heh, me too. That's not to say that I'm going to write a flawless novel, ever, but when you start thinking about doing it yourself, it does give you a more critical eye

[visiblemarket]

Huh. Maybe I should pick it up in a bookstore so I can mock it in a more informed manner know whereof I speak.

Heh, I don't think it was mocking levels of bad, but again, I haven't actually read it. I think I flipped through it once or twice. Never enough to commit.

LOL! Indeed. Heroes was retconned up the wazoo in the later seasons. Sad.

I figured with canon being so flexible I could just make more stuff up and/or design my timelines the way I wanted them to. If the actual writers didn't care, why should I?

Heh, me too. That's not to say that I'm going to write a flawless novel, ever, but when you start thinking about doing it yourself, it does give you a more critical eye.

I read a couple of teen level novels for recommendation purposes and was shocked at how...bad they were. Like just really shoddy writing. I don't know if that's a new development with YA books or just me caring more.

I'm highly amused by your slashing all these characters in historical novels.

Hey, it's canon in Maurice and...basically canon in Dorian Gray.

[indyhat]

Heh, I don't think it was mocking levels of bad, but again, I haven't actually read it. I think I flipped through it once or twice. Never enough to commit.

Maybe I should do the same ;)

I figured with canon being so flexible I could just make more stuff up and/or design my timelines the way I wanted them to. If the actual writers didn't care, why should I?

Heroes canon is a veritable contortionist ;)

I read a couple of teen level novels for recommendation purposes and was shocked at how...bad they were. Like just really shoddy writing. I don't know if that's a new development with YA books or just me caring more.

My money's probably on the latter. I'm pretty sure that getting in lots of practice at writing makes you a lot fussier about the stuff you read (in a nutshell, my current problem). And I know there's stuff on TV that I've gone back to since starting writing and just thought, "ugh, no."

I have an epic Hyde/Dorian Gray story planned. It makes sense in my head.Awesome. I'd read it (in fact I'm a lot more likely to read it

[white_hart]

I'm not sure how much use my recommendations will be to you, seeing as I have a great weakness for 1930s literature, but that said...I just read China Mieville's The City and the City for my book group, and you might like that. And possibly Murakami?

[indyhat]

C bought a Murakami a few years back and I couldn't get with it at all; something a bit too Irvine Welsh-y about it (though maybe that was the subject matter and I should look at the other books). I do hear good things about China Mieville though, so I'll check him (?) out, thanks. Althougn, oh dear, Wikipedia says he's a Socialist Worker, and it's possible his writing will be a bit too fantastical for me. But I promise to try! :)

[lotus0kid]

I don't read like I used to either. Don't really sit down somewhere comfortable and just read. I think about doing it, but hardly ever actually seem to.

I've read fanfic written in the first-person that has not sucked (though evidently I didn't bookmark any of it; make of that what you will). But I think this is something that takes real skill to do well
Definitely. I can only remember one case of well-done first-person fic. But anyway, I'd never write it myself, because honestly I feel like it crosses a line. It's one thing to sort of write about someone else's characters, but to actually use one of their voices, as if you really knew what they'd say? Eh, doesn't seem quite kosher to me.

Though thinking about it, isn't there a Heroes novel?
Indeed, Saving Charlie- detailing Hiro's quest to stop Sylar from killing, well, Charlie. It's really very sweet, if ultimately tragic. Oh, and it got pretty thoroughly Jossed by later seasons.

To which end: what should I be reading?
Hmm, tough to say. c_quinn does have a point with comics:

[indyhat]

I don't read like I used to either. Don't really sit down somewhere comfortable and just read. I think about doing it, but hardly ever actually seem to.

I think the Internets must suck all of what used to be 'reading time' ;-/

I don't read like I used to either. Don't really sit down somewhere comfortable and just read. I think about doing it, but hardly ever actually seem to.

Just out of interest, how is that distinct in your mind from writing dialog for a character who's otherwise being written about in the third person? Just curious :)

It's really very sweet, if ultimately tragic.

I may check it out, thanks :)

Oh, and it got pretty thoroughly Jossed by later seasons.

LOL! Heroes has pretty much perpetual retcon!fail after s1. I still love it though.

Thanks for the recs; some of those I don't bother with (Pratchett; I love him - he seems like such a sweet guy - but after a few of his books I found them all terribly same-ish, and that style just doesn't seem to work for me anymore. I haven't read any Gaiman since Good Omens

[lotus0kid]

I think the Internets must suck all of what used to be 'reading time'
They really do. The least I could do is write while I've got the dang thing turned on and all, but...

how is that distinct in your mind from writing dialog for a character who's otherwise being written about in the third person?
It's not, in a factual sense. And yet it still rubs me the wrong way.

I'm.. kind of astounded you think Terry Pratchett's books are all the same, but to each their own. If I think of any more recs, I'll let you know.

[indyhat]

It's not, in a factual sense. And yet it still rubs me the wrong way.

*grins* Reading is such a personal thing!

I'm.. kind of astounded you think Terry Pratchett's books are all the same, but to each their own.

Heh. I think maybe what I meant by that was that his writing style (in its quirks and descriptions, etc) is very consistent from one book to the next, and there came a point when I realised I was bored with it. But if you love Pterry, I don't want to make you sad!