thoughts on mindless death

[infinitemind]

A few thoughts.

1. Suicide is the most irresponsible, mindless, worthless endeavor any individual can achieve.
2. If you know someone that's commited suicide, they deserved that death. They do not deserve the slightest bit of sorrow or mourning you might have expressed on their behalf.
3. If i were ever dumb enough to off myself, i'd do it listening to rufus

Comments

[anise]

i see your point and it's very well taken and respected, however, you are much stronger than people who contemplate and complete the act of suicide. you already know this, i don't really need to tell you. but.

as a person who is suffers from a true chemical embalance it is very difficult to deal with living so thrown off day to day not knowing what you are going to think or even do next... a lot of times suicide acts are not even seriously thought out... the person thinks about the act, but, when it's actually happening they really aren't thinking "dude, i am killing myself" they are blank and just acting out. it's their mind acting out how sometimes the body will act out when it's had too much. it will just stop and somewhere inside of you a switch shuts you down. well, with a person who goes for suicide, it's pretty much what happens with the brain (well, in some cases) it shuts down and the person is not thinking, they are only acting

[infinitemind]

On one hand, i see some grey area concerning unintentional suicide, but on the other hand i know it should be black and white. If you're doing something harmful to yourself, you should be able to recognize that, at least enough to back off to some responsible degree.

If your life amounts to accidentally poisoning your body beyond your immune system's ability to defend itself, then what was your life worth? One would be best to get ahold of that before it ever gets to that point.

[wondergurl_77]

Oh I don't know. I think suicide as a sign of protest, or otherwise for some noble cause has the potentially very valuable (and has been somewhat valuable in the past

[infinitemind]

When has suicide as protest been valuable? And mind you i'm asking from a more-or-less Oist perspective. To what extent could suicide-for any reason at all-be beneficial to one's self-interest?

Haha, yeah, we've talked about your old-age plan.

I think you've hit upon the biggest grey area in my argument. I do see the merit in some kind of empathy for a tortured life, though much of myself is telling me that that's undeserved if they take the route of offing themselves. Still contemplating the details here.

My frustration comes primarily from my love of life. One typically only has one chance at life, so i can't fathom--ever--choosing a course of action that will cut that life short. If things get bad, mourn the passing of good times, then figure out how to get back to them. And i know that it's not exactly that simple, but i do know that it's possible.

gah. And absolute drowsiness just hit hard, so i'll have to continue the replies after i've napped. It is 5:30, after all. Ack.

[wondergurl_77]

Well, consider that I have a big goals in my life that I can acheive through suicide. Wouldn't that be a reasonable course of action

[speedoflug]

When I tried to kill myself, I was genuinely convinced that I had gone crazy. A few days before I did it, I went to a 24-hour pharmacy to get a prescription filled for Risperdal, an anti-psychotic. I got the prescription filled at about 3 in the morning, because I was so scared that I couldn't wait until the next day and I just wanted to sleep so badly. Risperdal can put someone twice my weight to sleep *very* easily, and THAT DRUG didn't even help me. When an anti-psychotic had not helped me calm down, I truly was convinced that I was beyond insane. You cannot fathom what that felt like. I cannot remember most of it, it was so traumatic. That summer, I had visited two different emergency rooms, seen a therapist, a psychiatrist, and tried at least 2 SSRI antidepressants, 2 or 3 benzodiazepene tranquilizers (Xanax, Klonopin- a drug that can make people black out, didn't even get me to sleep, Ativan), 1 antipsychotic, and several OTC sedatives...that was just what I had tried prior to the attempt

[laura_abroad]

My friend who tried to hang himself said that the first point was true.

I think that mourning a person is a selfish action. You do it for yourself, not for the person who's dead.

I think that the fourth point just depends on perspective. If you kill yourself for a spiritual reason, you're just fulfilling the final part of a personal belief that's obviously guided your entire life's course. I don't think that's necessarily bad.

[infinitemind]

I completely agree that mourning is a selfish action. My point is simply that it's an unworthy action. It would be like me getting sad for my brother for getting a failing grade because he didn't bother showing up to class. And in that case, i probably should have stated my comment more to the tune of "you don't deserve the sorrow on that person's behalf."

If a personal belief guides your life to an intentional dead-end, then you went through life with a terribly worthless belief system. Not bad, but definitely unfortunate, and certainly not respectable. I have trouble seeing any value in the Heaven's Gate suicides.

[speedoflug]

It would be like me getting sad for my brother for getting a failing grade because he didn't bother showing up to class. And in that case, i probably should have stated my comment more to the tune of "you don't deserve the sorrow on that person's behalf."
Yeah, but your brother failing a class would be the result of something that he irresponsibly let slide. Suicides are much more complex than that. It's not that someone didn't try hard enough to be responsible, or that they didn't bother taking some action that would be constructive, or any other thing they failed to live up to. (i personally got to the point of taking 12 Xanax a day, still having not committed the act. All I wanted was to feel normal and I tried everything I thought possible to do so...I definitely showed up for class) It's a combination of pain and emotional imbalance...of course no one deserves guilt/sorrow for the suicide, but no one would deserve guilt or sorrow had that person been murdered. no one *deserves* sorrow for another person's death that they

[infinitemind]

No, we should live chiefly for ourselves. Live is the operative word there. The responsibility is to one's own life, one's own growth.

I understand suicide as desperation. And i understand it would have eased your pain, or lack of emotion, if you successfully accomplished it. But at what cost? Your own existence. Through all that you went through, what is it that got you out of that rut? It wasnt suicide. You figured it out.

And i disagree with you about sorrow concerning a murder. In that case, sorrow is perfectly justified. As one who loves life, and all the possibilities therein, a murder is the abrupt end against one's will. It's an act of aggression against someone and as a result, a plentiful life will never have the opportunity to play out. That's definitely grounds for sadness.